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00:06:44 <alex_joni> rayh: got some good news
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21:16:10 <brown.freenode.net> Users on #emc-mazak: logger_mzk alex_joni rayh jmkasunich @ChanServ 
21:28:41 <alex_joni> jmkasunich: a very nice document I stumbled upon: http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/files/download/pdf/epos-firmware-specification-e.pdf
22:06:04 <alex_joni> you guys know about this: http://www.isd.cme.nist.gov/projects/omacapi/
22:06:12 <alex_joni> some very wild stuff done with emc by NIST
22:23:47 <rayh> I saw a bit of it a while back.  They do have some very unexpected stuff they do with it.
22:24:05 <alex_joni> right, activeX & co :)
22:40:11 <alex_joni> jmkasunich: around?
22:40:19 <alex_joni> * alex_joni has a suggestion for estop
22:40:19 <jmkasunich> yah
22:40:28 <jmkasunich> shoot
22:40:32 <alex_joni> you might want to use the one inside iocontrol
22:40:49 <alex_joni> it works nicely up to the gui
22:40:55 <jmkasunich> btw, iocontrol is exactly what is on my mind right now
22:41:11 <alex_joni> heh.. if you got questions, comments, ideas.. I'm around
22:41:13 <jmkasunich> setting up a simlated machine to see what you did in iocontrol
22:41:21 <alex_joni> * alex_joni is setting up a nightly emc2.tar.gz
22:41:37 <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries to remember :)
22:42:23 <alex_joni> I only read the NML messages
22:42:36 <alex_joni> it only read NML messages
22:42:41 <alex_joni> and outputs HAL pins based on that
22:42:49 <alex_joni> the only thing is on the spindle
22:42:55 <alex_joni> there I exported all kinds of signals
22:43:12 <alex_joni> you'd want only the speed stuff I guess (if you got a servo controlling the spindle)
22:43:29 <jmkasunich> not got that far yet
22:43:36 <jmkasunich> right now looking at the estop
22:43:41 <alex_joni> right
22:44:07 <alex_joni> there's iocontrol.0.estop-out
22:44:17 <alex_joni> that needs to go to a relay or whatever
22:44:27 <alex_joni> to interrupt the external estop chain
22:45:04 <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.estop-in is a sensing thing (from the motenc, or whereever), and it sends a NML message if estop is tripped
22:45:07 <alex_joni> so emc stops
22:45:29 <jmkasunich> how does it interact with the normal F1 thing?
22:45:46 <jmkasunich> ie: hit F1 to come out of estop, hit it again to stop
22:45:58 <alex_joni> yes
22:46:09 <alex_joni> that's estop-out
22:46:26 <alex_joni> and ideally it should be connected to estop-in at the end of the estop chain
22:46:48 <jmkasunich> not sure I follow (this really wants a drawing)
22:47:07 <alex_joni> emcmachine -> estop-out -> estop chain ... (various other estop sources, buttons, limits, etc) .. -> estop-in -> emc
22:47:25 <alex_joni> picture it like this:
22:47:31 <alex_joni> you have the 24V on the estop?
22:47:43 <jmkasunich> on the mazak there is a chain of real (physical) devices, all in series.  Power into the chain is +24V (always on), and power appears at the end of the chain when all is well
22:48:00 <jmkasunich> that signal goes to a PC input, becomes a HAL signals ESTOP_IN
22:48:12 <alex_joni> right
22:48:26 <alex_joni> exactly like I thought
22:48:35 <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.estop-in
22:48:35 <jmkasunich> it also goes thru a relay on a breakout board, and then to the coil of a small contactor that interrupts all machine control power
22:48:59 <alex_joni> ok.. now to have it even safer you have another relay
22:49:05 <alex_joni> in series with that one
22:49:23 <alex_joni> and this relay should be controlled by iocontrol.0.estop-out
22:50:15 <alex_joni> at least that's how I would do it
22:50:17 <jmkasunich> that's the relay on the breakout board
22:50:28 <alex_joni> and software estop trigger should break a contact
22:50:31 <alex_joni> and cut all power
22:50:46 <alex_joni> just like a normal estop button
22:51:04 <alex_joni> so as I see it you have 2 options:
22:51:21 <jmkasunich> there is an additional requirement
22:51:36 <alex_joni> take the chain of estop (before the relay) and run it through emc (which functions as another estop switch)
22:51:49 <alex_joni> and then it reaches the relay you spoke about
22:51:59 <jmkasunich> if ESTOP_IN goes away (even momentarily), we must turn off ESTOP_OUT (the breakout board relay) to force the operator to explicitly reset
22:52:57 <alex_joni> right
22:53:05 <jmkasunich> IOW we are responsible for latching the estop
22:53:12 <alex_joni> that's why I would do it with 2 circuits
22:53:14 <jmkasunich> and it should reset on F1
22:53:20 <alex_joni> right
22:53:27 <alex_joni> to be the safest..
22:53:43 <alex_joni> have the external estop circuit run all the way to the relay
22:53:51 <alex_joni> and emc only sees it as an input
22:53:51 <jmkasunich> which relay?
22:54:00 <alex_joni> the one you talked about
22:54:12 <jmkasunich> there are two :-(   we need nomenclature
22:54:27 <jmkasunich> ESTOP_OUT relay is the one on the breakout board, controlled by the PB
22:54:29 <alex_joni> 24V -> estop1 -> estop2 -> ... -> pointA -> relay1 -> gnd
22:54:46 <alex_joni> pointA is seen by emc as estop-in
22:54:49 <jmkasunich> ESTOP_RELAY is a largish power relay that shuts off everything
22:55:04 <alex_joni> 24V -> estop1 -> estop2 -> ... -> pointA -> ESTOP_RELAY -> gnd
22:55:04 <jmkasunich> actually:
22:55:55 <jmkasunich> 24V --- estop1 --- estop2 --- . . . --- estopN --- pointA --- ESTOP_OUT (contacts) ---- ESTOP_RELAY (coil) --- ground
22:56:12 <jmkasunich> point A is ESTOP_IN, just like you said
22:56:16 <alex_joni> what's ESTOP_OUT ?
22:56:26 <jmkasunich> relay controlled by EMC
22:56:30 <jmkasunich> two purposes:
22:56:32 <alex_joni> ahh.. ok then
22:56:36 <jmkasunich> 1) lets EMC itself drop out power
22:56:40 <alex_joni> it's just like I thought
22:56:42 <jmkasunich> 2) latching
22:56:57 <alex_joni> we were talking about the same thing all along :P
22:56:59 <jmkasunich> when ESTOP_IN goes away (even momentary) ESTOP_OUT turns off
22:57:07 <alex_joni> and stays off till F1
22:57:11 <jmkasunich> yep
22:57:23 <alex_joni> should work exactly like this
22:57:38 <jmkasunich> I have a RT component that does that part of the logic, so that it responds to even a very short dropout of ESTOP_IN
22:58:00 <jmkasunich> that component looks at ESTOP_IN and another signals called ESTOP_RESET
22:58:07 <jmkasunich> and it drives ESTOP_OUT
22:58:29 <alex_joni> right.. so you can still connect that before iocontrol.foo
22:58:37 <jmkasunich> it will turn ESTOP_OUT on only if ESTOP_IN is on and it sees a rising edge on ESTOP_RESET
22:58:52 <jmkasunich> ESTOP_RESET should pulse high when you hit F1
22:59:00 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks at that
22:59:35 <jmkasunich> once ESTOP_OUT is on, it ignores ESTOP_RESET.  If ESTOP_IN goes off, then ESTOP_OUT goes off and stays off
23:01:51 <alex_joni> oh.. fsck it ..
23:01:55 <alex_joni> someone saved on coding :P
23:02:11 <alex_joni> * alex_joni can fix that..
23:02:23 <alex_joni> if you hit F1 you generate a ESTOP_RESET
23:02:28 <alex_joni> from GUI to task
23:02:41 <alex_joni> EMC_TASK_STATE_ESTOP_RESET to be more precise
23:02:55 <alex_joni> now task decides it's safe to reset estop or not
23:03:02 <alex_joni> based on estop-in
23:03:24 <alex_joni> but it sends ESTOP_ON to aux instead of ESTOP_RESET
23:03:43 <alex_joni> so you have 2 choices:
23:04:17 <alex_joni> either use ESTOP_ON as the estop_reset signal to your module, or I'll add another message ESTOP_RESET (to task, and iocontrol)
23:04:55 <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is looking for the NML messages that are related to ESTOP
23:05:18 <alex_joni> the ones I described above
23:05:26 <alex_joni> there are several groups
23:05:31 <alex_joni> from task to GUI
23:06:26 <alex_joni> and from task to aux
23:06:53 <alex_joni> task-GUI: are called // types for EMC_TASK state
23:06:53 <alex_joni> enum EMC_TASK_STATE_ENUM {
23:06:53 <alex_joni>     EMC_TASK_STATE_ESTOP = 1,
23:06:53 <alex_joni>     EMC_TASK_STATE_ESTOP_RESET = 2,
23:06:53 <alex_joni>     EMC_TASK_STATE_OFF = 3,
23:06:53 <alex_joni>     EMC_TASK_STATE_ON = 4
23:06:55 <alex_joni> };
23:07:44 <alex_joni> actually the message is called EMC_TASK_SET_STATE
23:07:50 <alex_joni> with one of the above states
23:14:33 <alex_joni> the other NML messages are from Task to Aux (iocontrol in our case)
23:14:52 <alex_joni> #define EMC_AUX_ESTOP_ON_TYPE                         ((NMLTYPE) 1206)
23:14:52 <alex_joni> #define EMC_AUX_ESTOP_OFF_TYPE                        ((NMLTYPE) 1207)
23:15:13 <alex_joni> AUX_ESTOP_OFF gets sent on EMC_TASK_STATE_ESTOP_RESET
23:23:03 <jmkasunich> sorry, dealing with a mini.tcl funny at the moment
23:23:29 <alex_joni> heh.. mini :X
23:27:52 <alex_joni> ok.. got questions on the estop stuff ?
23:28:35 <jmkasunich> back on that now
23:28:41 <jmkasunich> running mini at the moment
23:28:46 <jmkasunich> it seems inverted
23:29:02 <alex_joni> mini is inverted?
23:29:13 <jmkasunich> when the button says "ESTOP PUSH" that means the machine is ready, and if you push it it will trip (shut down)
23:29:18 <alex_joni> yes
23:29:22 <alex_joni> that's a nice feature
23:29:40 <alex_joni> I remember spending about 2h trying to figure out a way to come out of estop
23:29:47 <alex_joni> and I didn't realize it was out of estop :D
23:29:47 <jmkasunich> but at that point, iocontrol.0.estop-out is false
23:29:58 <alex_joni> hmmm.. really?
23:30:22 <alex_joni> that's odd..
23:30:26 <jmkasunich> halmeter doesn't lie (I don't think)
23:30:27 <alex_joni> with tkemc it worked ok
23:30:36 <alex_joni> no.. I tested with halmeter aswell
23:30:46 <alex_joni> no= halmeter doesn't lie
23:31:00 <jmkasunich> when I push the button, it changes to ESTOPPED
23:31:13 <jmkasunich> and iocontrol.0.estop-out goes TRUE ?!?
23:31:19 <alex_joni> hang on
23:31:22 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks at mini
23:32:44 <alex_joni> how about when it's green? and says ESTOP_RESET ?
23:35:05 <jmkasunich> that is after F2, I think, I haven't tried to go there
23:35:32 <alex_joni> hang on.. rebooting to linux
23:35:35 <alex_joni> will take a bit
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23:40:19 <alex_joni> back
23:42:51 <alex_joni> hmm.. seems to work ok here
23:43:13 <alex_joni> when it's ESTOPPED then iocontrol.0.estop-out is TRUE
23:43:42 <alex_joni> and when ESTOP-RESET or ESTOP-PUSH then iocontrol.0.estop-out is FALSE
23:44:13 <jmkasunich> I guess it depends on your definition of the state of estop
23:44:25 <alex_joni> right
23:44:25 <jmkasunich> I think of TRUE as "ready to run" and FALSE as "stopped"
23:46:35 <alex_joni> you can adjust if you want..
23:46:52 <alex_joni> but ESTOP = TRUE to me means estop is triggered :)
23:47:34 <alex_joni> ok.. back to messages