00:00:10 I ran 24 the other day 00:01:28 Tried that, went on down to 25. same jount 2 following error at the bottom of the first downstroke, feed override=350% 00:02:13 And the rest of the machine still feels good, I don't think its hogging the cpu too bad yet. 00:04:57 Ok, same story except its beginning to lag at 23 u-s. Not bad for a country boy! And it ran thru that at 300%, so ATM I'm a happy caper 00:05:05 camper 00:05:34 Is this about what would be expected? 00:05:39 skunkworks has joined #emc 00:06:37 logger_aj: bookmark 00:06:37 See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-16#T00-06-37 00:06:45 skunkworks: still working on it 00:07:41 has not locked up yet? 00:07:47 Hey guys, thanks a bunch, I'm going to go out and apply power to the motors & see how this runs in person now 00:07:57 ok Gene, have fun 00:08:06 skunkworks: not yet 00:08:15 but I'm not getting any closer either :( 00:08:20 Ephexis has joined #EMC 00:08:34 Might be back, depends on how long the missus naps, probably have to order a pizza or something 00:10:54 any idea on what the issue is? 00:11:03 did the source not compile? 00:12:42 it does compile, but it behaves just the same 00:12:51 so I'm hacking it now, to see where the problem is 00:13:01 so we can properly fix it 00:13:26 one last test I can do, then I need to go to bed 00:13:34 it's 1AM in germany :) 00:13:56 got a plane back home tomorrow (actually today) 00:14:10 wow 00:14:20 did you notice this? 00:14:31 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz 00:14:31 22:55:03 stepping : 9 00:14:31 22:55:05 cpu MHz : 1800.365 00:21:57 heh 00:22:16 maybe your FSB is not set-up properly? 00:22:34 could be. Not the issue though? 00:22:37 no 00:23:06 issue is shmem related internals 00:23:24 hope JMK has a better idea, just wanting to finish my report so he can take over 00:24:20 tag team 00:25:04 I think it is pretty cool someone in germany is trouble shooting code in a computer in wisconsin 00:25:25 well, I'm from romania ;) 00:25:32 but I'm in a hotel right now 00:25:41 in a small god-forgotten place :D 00:25:46 right (I know) but right now you are in germany 00:25:54 yes 00:25:56 Waldkirch 00:26:07 near switzerland and france 00:26:55 what are you doing there? If I may ask 00:27:11 crap - I should shut up and let you work 00:28:16 returning home ;) 00:28:17 tomorrow 00:28:22 I was at a meeting 00:28:33 skunkworks: I logged out 00:28:40 you can shut it down if needed 00:29:33 my mail arrived on the devel list, if you care to look it over :P 00:29:51 I'm heading for bed, sorry I can't fix it right now :/ 00:30:05 no idea what is wrong, I suspect RTAI & HW combination 00:30:20 ok - thanks - sleep good 00:30:31 no problem 00:33:24 ok bye 00:33:28 g'night all 00:42:31 there must be a delay between when you post it and I can see it on sourceforge - devel list on sourceforge 00:42:36 roltek has joined #emc 00:43:46 roltek is now known as rayh_ontheroad 00:47:18 rayh_ontheroad has quit 02:45:25 night everyone 02:55:40 Cradek: ? 02:55:45 yes 02:56:31 I noticed the post that gene had sent on the list is the errors I was getting after emc2 didn't start the first time 02:56:58 (the next time I tried to run it I got those same errors) 02:57:16 Starting emc... 02:57:16 insmod: error inserting 02:57:16 '/lib/modules/2.6.12.6-magma/kernel/adeos/adeos.ko': -1 Operation not 02:57:16 permitted 02:58:28 yes, same error, different reason 02:58:45 his was a simple permissions problem 02:59:10 darn 02:59:40 it seems for some reason RTAI doesn't like your hardware 02:59:53 maybe alex and jmk will come up with the answer 03:00:04 you may have found an important bug for us to fix before the release 03:00:08 well - I can definatly put it into a differnt computer tomorrow to play also. 03:00:37 it would be nice if you could leave this one together, so they can have another look over the next few days 03:00:38 It was cool that alex got in and goofed around 03:00:47 No problem 03:01:17 yes, it's fun to do support for people using unix - you can do everything remotely 03:01:41 it was a smooth install - it worked really well. I even set up a static ip while it was installing 03:01:45 I've done tech support on unix for a living - it's fascinating to users who are not used to unix 03:01:52 terrific 03:02:11 I am used to remote desktop / terminal server. 03:02:12 I am glad to hear that, I just wish emc would run! It's great if we find this problem though. 03:02:40 I did this in 1994-1995 when non-unix machines were decidedly single-user 03:02:45 ah - That is what testing is for 03:02:56 that's right 03:04:30 I still have a novell 4.12 server running. almost unix like. 03:04:32 ;) 03:04:47 netware is the one thing I've avoided so far! 03:05:05 I really need to get into the unix/linux more. this really helps - something fun to play with 03:05:28 be careful, you will get stuck and never want to use anything else 03:05:48 but I really believe open source is the way to go. 03:05:50 Me back! 03:05:59 novell runs ok - but to be honest we will probably switch it out with a windoz machine at some point 03:06:03 hello 03:06:06 Hi 03:06:26 It got rather cool in the shop, so I had to desert it, go geta few groceries & fix us something to eat. 03:06:45 february is like that (but not as much as usual around here lately) 03:06:54 But now, and the last time I tried to run it out tehre, I'm getting a new errpr: 03:06:57 when the sun goes down, you better head inside 03:07:01 But now, and the last time I tried to run it out tehre, I'm getting a new error: 03:07:19 big snow storm here tomorrow. Up to a foot 03:07:24 wow 03:07:37 Starting emc... 03:07:38 insmod: error inserting '/home/gene/emc2/rtlib/motmod.ko': -1 Operation not permitted 03:07:39 gas up the snowblower! 03:07:40 Motion module motmod.ko did not load... 03:07:42 check system log for error messages 03:07:43 Shutting down and cleaning up EMC... 03:07:45 Cleanup done 03:07:55 We're pretty well thawed out here in WV 03:08:01 ls -l /home/gene/emc2/bin/emc_module_helper 03:08:06 Lots of issues today 03:08:28 every year I wait until one day too late to haul the snowblower from the barn to the garage 03:08:36 -rwsr-x--- 1 root gene 32127 2006-02-15 17:17 /home/gene/emc2/bin/emc_module_helper 03:08:39 ;) 03:08:48 ok great, that's right 03:08:59 How the heck did it get to be root? 03:09:08 that's what sudo make setuid does 03:09:43 Sparky_: check your dmesg for a different error 03:11:40 cradek - you arn't too far away from me are you? 03:11:41 This is odd 03:11:45 HAL_LIB: ERROR: clock period too long: 19276 03:11:47 [1548229.350882] MOTION: failed to create 19000 nsec base thread 03:11:54 skunkworks: Lincoln NE 03:12:09 star city, good town 03:12:11 Sparky_: aha, you found the real error 03:12:20 Sparky_: did you just change something in the ini? 03:12:41 set the base period to low? 03:13:05 but it says period too LONG 03:14:23 that is odd 03:14:35 New bug guys, 20 u-s is as low as it will accept, I had it set for 19 03:14:52 And at 20, it was running, and is running OK 03:15:03 I was right 03:15:11 ;) error is wrong 03:15:15 About what 03:16:07 you were at 50us before and now 20? that's great 03:16:14 I think the error means this: 19276 (some value from the hardware) is too long, so a 19000 nsec thread can't be run. 03:16:23 It appears that 19 microseconds triggers a new bug. 03:17:04 But 20 is fine, a wee bit laggy opening the nc_files dir, but hey... 03:17:12 makes sense 03:17:29 I think it just found the limit of your hardware 03:17:47 sparky - are you running steppers? 03:18:15 Possibly, its an XP1400 Athlon, half gig or 266 ddr ram, running at 1400mhz 03:18:36 Steppers, yes. Xylotex kit 03:18:38 20 is pretty darn fast 03:19:08 nice - that is a great improvement - when just a few days ago I was having trouble running .00006 period 03:19:11 curr_period = rtapi_clock_set_period(period_nsec); 03:19:21 /* make sure period <= desired period (allow 1% roundoff error) */ 03:19:21 if (curr_period > (period_nsec + (period_nsec / 100))) { 03:19:25 "HAL_LIB: ERROR: clock period too long: %ld\n", curr_period); 03:19:34 As far as the motors, I was able to stall it while runnng 3D with the override at 175, 160 seemed to be fine and the machine moves pretty good. 03:19:54 It appears that you pass rtapi_clock_set_period your desired period, and it passes back an actual period (which may be different from what you requested) 03:20:25 Its possible a slower accel might help, I've got that cranked abiut 20 turns past broken. 03:20:28 :) 03:20:42 latency on my very fast machine is >12us 03:21:10 So I'm not doing so bad at 20 then? 03:21:26 no that seems pretty good 03:21:50 that is great on my end. I think they really fixed the issue of the last few weeks. can't wait to try it 03:21:50 I've some machines with latency as low as 8us, but 12-14 is typical 03:22:06 yes, it's definitely fixed, there was a smoking gun 03:22:44 I'll have to play with the accels some I think, I can hear it stuutering as it moves thru those segments in what appears to be a straight lines in the Y motion. 03:23:23 Qhat did you actually fix, or is it several screens full? 03:23:24 steppers sometimes seem to take a lot fiddling to run at their best 03:23:40 testsuite/kern/lat gives me an ovl max 13302 while I run the disk, CPU, hardware OpenGL, and press the lid switch (it's a laptop) 03:23:58 I'm up to 14351ns 03:24:17 it all goes wrong if I let the hardware GL kick in (this is not my mill's machine) 03:24:35 nvidia and realtime don't mix at all 03:24:47 Chris: That might be the wrong GL driver then 03:25:08 Sparky_: one thing the realtime threads do is measure how long they took. They measured in an extremely inefficient way. 03:25:09 Sparky_: it's the closed-source nvidia driver - it works spectacularly for everything but realtime (a known problem) 03:25:54 sparky 16:30:32 alex_joni: Do you know what was broken to cause emc2 to run slow. (in laymans terms) ;) I see John Kasunich mentioned in the list that there was an issue. 03:25:59 My system has ati graphics .. it's not perfect, but it doesn't foul up realtime 03:25:59 Oh, that explains it, nuff said. But I'm runnng an nvidia card in that machine, but using the nv driver, spit 03:26:05 http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-15 03:26:20 Sparky_: the nv driver will be fine 03:26:20 start there and read - nice explaination my cradek 03:26:26 Thats the strory here, ati card, seems bulletproof 03:26:49 and alex 03:27:02 Who is the oldest here? 03:27:07 Sparky_: you are 03:27:18 haha 03:27:19 I figured, but I had to ask. 03:27:29 EH? SPEAK UP! 03:27:40 sorry 03:27:47 cradek: say "sonny" 03:27:52 cradek: i.e., call someone "sonny" 03:28:01 I'll remember that for next time 03:28:05 I hear you just fine there Chris, even if I do have carhary notches 120 db deep in both ears 03:28:16 I hear you just fine there Chris, even if I do have carhart notches 120 db deep in both ears 03:28:26 I heard you the first time! 03:28:51 yeah, but my fingers don't always type what I tell them 03:29:00 we need les around - he thinks he's old 03:29:12 Watts? 03:29:16 yes 03:29:26 17045ns 03:29:29 Sparky_: more seriously, I'm 30. Which is, paradoxically, young enough to still think that 30 is old. 03:29:30 How old is Les then? 03:29:40 I'm not sure... 03:29:51 Ah, young whippersnappers 03:30:08 32 03:30:24 From the tone of his messages on the list, I'd guess early 50's? 03:30:35 old enough to know I don't know everthing 03:30:50 Sparky_: I bet he has said, but I don't remember 03:31:03 my memory's not what it used to be, haha 03:31:03 I had that figured out the day they shot Kennedy 03:31:50 Neither is mine, short term is obviously bad at times. Probably not helped by a littlke suger either, al that stuff adds up unforch. 03:33:26 Seriously, you all seem to be at the peak of your careers, while mine is 90% over. I tried to retire, but when you know where all teh bodies are, they never really forget your phone number... 03:33:54 more like the ruts are just starting for us 03:34:15 sparky - do you have picts of your machine? 03:34:17 I know mine are... 03:34:28 orpheus has joined #emc 03:34:29 Yes, but no place to post them 03:35:38 I am sure some one would post them - there are a lot of web sites being supported on here. I could host them if you wanted. 03:35:44 http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller 03:35:51 you could put a few on here 03:36:27 They also show off the terrible housekeeping, its sitting on a little kitchen base cabinet, a 50 year old steel one, with tools & stuff kneedeep all aound it. 03:36:47 ftp? 03:37:33 crap - I would have to set that up. probably not happening tonight. 03:37:45 email them to me? 03:38:12 Well, I have ndi how to go about uploading otherwise. rsync maybe? 03:38:43 messy? here is the emc2 test machine http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCgantry.JPG 03:39:06 Yeah, I can email them. They're big, my camera is a 3.2 mpix, make about 600k jpegs 03:39:17 now you are talking greek - not a linux person 03:39:19 the windex is a nice touch - in case you want to clean something? 03:39:43 don't know what that was for 03:39:50 that is one heck of a machine 03:39:54 cleaning eye glasses I think 03:40:08 nice size to play with 03:40:10 is that tiny drill bit what you were cutting with? 03:40:27 and I can see I have some competition in the messy dept.... 03:40:30 that is a router - probably a 1/4 inch end mill 03:40:42 wow, it looks so tiny 03:40:44 we where cutting sprockets at the time I think 03:40:52 a 1/4" end mill on mine is huge 03:41:00 you can see the patterns in the plywood 03:41:07 yep 03:41:10 and the sheet metal (?) 03:41:34 aluminum - 1/8 inch 03:41:44 I have collets for up to half inch, but not the cojons to turn them in anything hard than wood, darnit. 03:42:28 I've got a 3/8 end mill holder but have never used it... 03:42:40 we where cutting at about 5 ipm - could have gone faster as the shavings where floating away 03:42:44 My table is too small though, has anyone tried the Chris Woods kits for more motion on the micromill? 03:43:04 Chris Wood = Littlemachineshop.com 03:43:29 skunkworks: do you cut the whole 1/8", dry, in one pass? 03:43:40 yes 03:43:48 nice 03:44:02 not dry - usually some kind of coolant - wd-40 or something 03:44:06 ah 03:44:09 gulling 03:44:11 Al is a pain when dry 03:44:24 right 03:44:26 I may have even beat that in steel, using a 1/8" dremel carbide rasp 03:44:46 But I drownedit in cutting oil of course. 03:45:01 I like Alumicut 03:45:11 I either need new fingers, or a new keyboard 03:45:14 The sprockets you see here where cut on it http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/zaxis.JPG 03:45:15 but I think it's just mostly kerosene, not sure 03:45:34 neat 03:45:41 clever Z axis 03:45:49 it was cheap 03:45:50 are those acme or just all-thread? 03:45:53 some day ball screws 03:46:08 normal treaded rod from the hardware store 03:46:28 not real precise, but plentiful and cheap 03:46:28 Heck, that looks like the tuning gear setup on a tv transmitter cavity 03:46:37 father took a bit to find 4 that had close enough pitch 03:46:43 ha 03:46:45 And precise enough 03:46:55 yeah they can be pretty crappy. 03:47:02 right 03:47:26 I bet some acme screws would not cost much and would work a lot better 03:48:16 I am sure. - next revision. I am going to have to take a video of it running. You guys would get a kick out of it 03:48:23 The 1/2" I bought for the z axis on my machine isn't that great, .002 one way or the other in an inch. 03:48:29 do that, it would be neat to see 03:49:00 skunkworks: is this what you run with emc? 03:49:05 I take it that we are lookng at the z axis drive? 03:49:06 yes 03:49:38 yes, I can calibrate it of course, but... 03:50:24 Your email address? 03:50:32 this is the next project - emc2 with servos and emc2 ladder logic http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG 03:51:21 holy cow 03:51:31 samcoinc@gmail.com 03:51:49 that's bigger than any of my toys 03:51:56 that was about my reaction 03:52:00 notice in the background the controller - all descrete components 03:52:05 that's bigger than any of my anything 03:52:15 germanim transisters. 03:52:38 that means you can fix it when it breaks 03:52:54 does it read paper tape? 03:53:01 it finally died last month - have not had the time to fix it - leaning towards scrapping the controller and going with emc2 03:53:04 For a while yet, what happens when they shgut the last GE production line down? 03:53:24 it used to - I made a interface to run gcode from a computer 03:53:36 cool 03:54:14 (that was my limited c++ experience) 03:54:44 how did you interface with it? directly with the tape reader? 03:56:37 it was using the computer parrelel port with opto isolation to drive where the photo transisters used to be 03:57:01 ah, clever 03:57:09 (think they where photo transisters - has been a while) pretty sure 03:57:20 how did you read the speed of the feed sprocket? 03:57:23 I've not a front view, but a rear view, off the left rear of it to show the z drive & some of the ehad suspension, best I've got ATM, 03:59:38 it didn't have a sprocke that ran the tape through if I remember right - it had sensed the sprocket hole as its timing - I think I just had to get the speed close and it worked. I think there was one input to the computer to let it know the controller needed another line of gcode 04:00:35 ok, gotcha 04:00:40 sorry, just curious about it 04:00:53 no problem - cobwebs though 04:00:58 One 150 kilobyte jpg headed your way 04:01:00 sounds like a fun hack to get an extra 10-20 years of use out of it 04:01:03 I did that in highschool ;) 04:01:57 we got it for the price of scrap metal - I spent my summer vacation splicing where they had saw-zalled it appart 04:02:17 yuck 04:02:31 Chuckle, uppity kid, he made it to high school. I've a GED & a few others. Sazall? Good grief!! 04:02:32 thousands of wires needed to be spliced togather - plus all the hydrolic lines 04:02:59 That had to be a labor of love... 04:03:40 how many gallons of fluid did you use to bleed everything then? sounds like a nightmare 04:04:11 it was a good learning experience 04:04:42 I'd say! 04:05:23 Now is it going to make parts for a living? 04:06:12 http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/rear-view.jpg 04:06:17 here you go 04:06:38 we do odd jobs here and there. 04:06:59 more of a hobby now - some people have boats ;)\ 04:08:05 Shows the mess very wel at that scale, and ditto on the boat. But I haven't wet the bootom on mine in 2+ years, been busy 04:09:17 Can you see how that drive coupleing works ok? 04:09:27 how fast did you say you where running it around? 04:10:15 Tonight, maybe an inch a second in the middle of a long move 04:10:41 wow, that's pretty fast for a small machine 04:10:56 They were singing hi C. 04:11:02 nice 04:11:29 I've always wondered if I could get mine to play a nice tune 04:11:51 we have had the gantry up to 300 ipm. (xandy) z maxes out at about 70 04:11:54 I thought it was ok since the xy screws are 20 tpi, xykotex set for 1/4 step though 04:12:25 I can only get half that speed on my 16tpi screws 04:12:31 ~ 30ipm 04:12:33 Thats trucking faster than a 3 horse router can move material I'd think 04:13:12 that isn't the point ;) 04:13:19 but you are correct 04:13:22 Set tjhe amps for 1/4 step Chris, they don't seem to care that much about 1/8th step. 04:13:45 I just have half-step drives 04:14:12 I kept stalling at leass than 1/2"sec, 30 ipm before at 1/8th step. 04:14:15 cradek - did you ever look further into the tp? 04:14:38 I pretty much wrote a new one, but with no blending 04:14:48 What ampos Chris? 04:14:53 What amps Chris? 04:14:54 oh you mean that bug? nope 04:15:10 Sparky_: homemade L297/8 chopper halfstep drives 04:15:18 Sparky_: run on ~ 42V 04:15:33 I ment the rewrite - do you think blending is next or are you done? 04:15:40 Uuughh, I tried that, flat couldn't make the moves at all 04:16:20 skunkworks: I dunno. I'm kind of tired of it, and all the guys who said they'd happily do the math if only it was understandable haven't stepped up. 04:16:27 xylotex 2.5 amp amps, 28.5 volt supply, weigfhs about 30 lbs. 04:16:30 so it's kind of frustrating... 04:16:35 ah 04:17:07 No doubt. And I'm not exactly a math whiz either. 04:17:22 I don't think anyone has looked at or even run simple_tp 04:17:39 how is emc working now - are your changes in it? or is it as it was with your accelleration fix 04:17:43 Who? Me? Nope.. 04:18:13 skunkworks: not sure which thing you're talking about 04:18:15 I'm pretty happy with TESTING right now. 04:19:31 I was following your simple_tp - was wondering if it was implimented in emc2. or is emc2 as it was with your acceleration fixes - where each axis runs at its own max accelleraton 04:19:35 But even at high speeds, I can sure hear each line of code being exec'd, even when the move is a straight line move in 3 or 4 segments 04:19:38 did that make sense? 04:20:08 clarify? 04:20:38 simple_tp is a CVS branch of the TP in emc2; you can check it out and compile/run it 04:21:05 ok - that is what I was wondering. 04:21:06 Which one is in TESTING now 04:21:10 Sparky_: you're talking about hearing a transition between colinear moves? 04:21:16 yes 04:21:26 TESTING is the old blending TP 04:21:54 Sparky_: I've observed that too. Most/all (?) blends seem to be wrong in all versions of emc 04:21:55 So the other clocking speedup is what fixed it for me then? 04:22:21 Sparky_: it seems nothing really fixes it. If your accel is high compared to your velocity, the problems are really minimal 04:22:44 Well, thats why I sort of squawked a little about it, and yes, my accels are 20x vels 04:23:13 I think les running 600+ipm cutting sees it 04:23:18 Sparky_: we all know there are a few issues in there... 04:23:25 I'd take a look at it, but it would take me 2 weeks to just get all the vars sorted as to what they are supposed to do. 04:23:32 skunkworks: yeah he may have the fastest machine around. 04:23:45 Sparky_: haha, that's why I wrote simple_tp, to take away excuses like that 04:24:07 Possibly, but I recall he was fussing that it got worse when he slowed it down, this on the circle cutting IIRC 04:24:11 Sparky_: read up on a blending algorithm and stick it in there, no excuses 04:24:19 Ok - I have to sleep 04:24:22 me too 04:24:31 goodnight 04:24:41 Ok, but where can I find this tome I'm supposed to read. 04:24:58 sparky - if you have any more files emial them to me and I will post them - I have tons of space and bandwidth 04:25:33 Ok, I have some closeups of the motor mounts and couplings too. 04:26:03 Going to sleep - already in bed - cradek - thanks for your help today 04:26:20 But like you, its getting late, so next fine. Good conversation giuys 04:26:40 I will check my mail tomorrow 04:26:44 Sparky_ has left #emc 04:26:46 night 04:27:04 skunkworks has quit 05:43:23 Jymmm has joined #emc 06:54:00