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01:27:46 <giacus> G night
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05:30:15 <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: 
05:30:15 <CIA-8> Fix TP misblend problems with g0 reversals by reinstating parts of the old TP.
05:30:15 <CIA-8> This makes 3D_chips run correctly for me using the default stepper_inch configuration.
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07:13:27 <orpheus> is servo-to-go the only servo controller supported by emc?
08:07:01 <alex_joni> orpheus: no, there are quite a few
08:07:23 <alex_joni> motenc, univpwm, m5i20, etc
08:07:36 <alex_joni> but usually at this time of day it's pretty quiet in here
08:07:49 <orpheus> ah, so i've seen now
08:08:08 <alex_joni> ;-)
08:08:13 <alex_joni> most folks from the US in here
08:08:16 <alex_joni> where are you from?
08:08:27 <orpheus> atlanta
08:08:36 <orpheus> yes, it is 3:08
08:08:47 <alex_joni> ouch :)
08:08:53 <alex_joni> it's 10:13 over here 
08:08:54 <alex_joni> AM
08:09:04 <alex_joni> Europe, btw
08:09:11 <orpheus> i got a mill, and all i have to do now is convert it, somehow i wasted 3 hours sifting through ebay auctions
08:10:16 <orpheus> i have no steppers, no drivers, and no magic control boxes, so it's kinda like,  ...what do I wanna get?
08:11:02 <orpheus> closed-loop servo? stepper motors? what kind of pc interface?
08:11:15 <alex_joni> how much do you want to invest?
08:11:19 <orpheus> thus i'm looking at ebay to get a feel f what's out there
08:11:24 <orpheus> *for
08:11:28 <alex_joni> close-loop servo is best (but expensive)
08:11:34 <alex_joni> steppers is good (cheaper)
08:11:40 <orpheus> i was hoping $200-300
08:11:48 <alex_joni> ok, foget about servos then
08:11:58 <alex_joni> you get about 1 axis for that money (if you are lucky)
08:12:05 <orpheus> so i've noticed
08:12:25 <alex_joni> so a 3 axis mill is about 1500$ at least (servo card, servos, motors, encoders, cables, etc.)
08:12:38 <orpheus> it's a desktop mill, so do i really need closed-loop steppers?
08:12:44 <alex_joni> steppers then, but I'm more a servo guy, so I can't really help you on that
08:12:46 <alex_joni> no
08:13:04 <alex_joni> you can get away with open-loop steppers on ANY machine, given configured ok
08:13:10 <orpheus> heh
08:13:27 <orpheus> t's just when things go wrong...
08:14:06 <orpheus> so is my usderstanding correct in that you can wire a stepper driver straight to a parallel port?
08:16:20 <orpheus> 1200 oz/inch... wow... tat would take your arm off
08:22:59 <alex_joni> orpheus: yes, and yes
08:23:07 <orpheus> heh
08:23:28 <orpheus> yep, time to go to bed, 
08:23:32 <orpheus> thanks, btw
09:07:34 <alex_joni> night
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13:12:50 <jepler> orpheus: "straight to the parallel port" is a bit of a simplification.   I know firsthand that this board works well to drive stepper motors from step+direction signals, though: http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
13:13:01 <jepler> orpheus: parallel port -> breakout board -> one of these boards per axis
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13:50:46 <les_w> morning
13:51:13 <les_w> I noted the list posts about TP errors in "3dchips"
13:54:24 <les_w> was checking the math...seems ok
13:55:38 <les_w> however it would be normal in a trapeziodal blend to not actually reach a waypoint
13:55:54 <les_w> this would be magnified in a single axis reversal
13:56:38 <les_w> there was hard code to go exact stop in trajectory angles greater than 90 degrees though
13:56:47 <les_w> we may have disabled that bit
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13:57:39 <les_w> the large accel error is more disturbing
14:11:44 <alex_joni> hi les
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14:23:29 <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
14:23:41 <SWPadnos> hi guys
14:24:07 <SWPadnos> les - it looks like reinstating some code that wad #ifdef'd out fixed the TP issues in 3D_Chips
14:24:36 <cradek> hi
14:24:40 <SWPadnos> hi
14:24:50 <SWPadnos> I guess I found something :)
14:24:54 <cradek> that's nice to know I guess
14:25:16 <SWPadnos> I'm just not sure why the code was removed in the first place
14:25:26 <cradek> because it made the typical misblends less bad
14:25:54 <cradek> I mean, removing it did
14:26:11 <SWPadnos> really?  interesting
14:26:52 <SWPadnos> so it improves typical misblends but screws up atypical ones
14:26:58 <cradek> yeah, paul removed that and les saw better results, but nobody understood it.
14:27:26 <cradek> well all the blends are always wrong.
14:27:41 <cradek> even colinear (g1x1 g1x2 g1x3)
14:29:57 <SWPadnos> well - I'll look at it a bit more today, once I've had coffee
14:31:43 <alex_joni> hello guys
14:31:46 <alex_joni> I'll be back later
14:31:49 <alex_joni> going home now..
14:31:53 <cradek> hi alex
14:32:04 <SWPadnos> hi alex
14:32:06 <SWPadnos> bye alex
15:03:35 <les_w> sorry was away
15:04:06 <les_w> yeah #ifdef ing that code out made a dramatic difference
15:04:27 <les_w> I figured it might cause problems also
15:04:42 <les_w> but the net effect was very good
15:05:08 <les_w> with it in horrible misblending occurs at almost every point
15:05:27 <SWPadnos> I'm trying to trace through it to see exactly what it does, but it hasn't sunk in yet
15:05:51 <les_w> Now, it was put in to fix something....but it was in error
15:06:03 <les_w> so removing it got rid of the error
15:06:17 <les_w> but I guess there is still something to fix
15:06:31 <SWPadnos> yeah, because putting it back fixed seomthing else ;)
15:07:16 <les_w> with that bit in it's so bad it will tear a high speed machine apart
15:07:43 <cradek> maybe we know what to do at fest now.
15:07:55 <les_w> now it's better but has accel limit violations
15:08:24 <SWPadnos> before fest would likely be best
15:09:08 <les_w> let me check will's notes here
15:11:31 <les_w> ach cvs is down for me
15:11:36 <les_w> oh there it is
15:13:20 <les_w> ok will's note specifically says that it was put in to make sure accel and vel limits were honored
15:13:32 <SWPadnos> yep - that's why I put it back
15:13:49 <les_w> so the observed 3dchips stuff makes sense
15:13:54 <SWPadnos> I don't see exactly how it's doing this, but it did work
15:14:26 <les_w> But with it in, horrible misblends occur
15:14:44 <les_w> it's almost like exact stop mode even in g64
15:14:54 <les_w> we did a lot of testing
15:15:12 <SWPadnos> hmmm - I winder if there's a negative number happening somewhere
15:15:15 <SWPadnos> wonder
15:15:42 <les_w> for me I'll take good blends and allow accel limit violation....
15:15:46 <cradek> I wonder if the trapezoids themselves are planned wrong
15:16:20 <les_w> my machine can do about 200 in/sec^2 
15:16:45 <les_w> of course I want to have good blending and accel limit honored
15:16:58 <les_w> but we could not figure it out
15:17:07 <cradek> [EMCMOT] TP_MY_CHOSEN_POISON = CONSTRAINTS_VIOLATED
15:17:21 <SWPadnos> heh
15:17:23 <les_w> haha pretty much
15:17:43 <SWPadnos> ./conigure --with-error=screw_the_limits
15:17:58 <SWPadnos> ./conigure --with-error=screw_the_path
15:18:03 <les_w> um...bbiam...chickens delivered!!
15:18:04 <SWPadnos> ...
15:18:35 <SWPadnos> of course, it would be more funny if I hadn't copied the misspelled 'configure'
15:18:43 <SWPadnos> or maybe not
15:31:46 <les_w> back...breeding chickens here
15:32:02 <les_w> I think they can handle it from here
15:32:15 <SWPadnos> err - OK, you can stop now ;)
15:32:24 <les_w> haha
15:32:40 <les_w> fantastic purebreed rooster
15:33:42 <les_w> anyway...bottom line...Will's attempt to fix accel violations basically trashed the tp.
15:33:48 <les_w> unfortunately
15:34:32 <SWPadnos> hmmm
15:34:59 <SWPadnos> I'll have to trace through tcRunCycle a bit to see what's really going on
15:35:19 <les_w> good
15:35:38 <les_w> half a dozen of us could not figure out a proper fix
15:36:13 <SWPadnos> I probably won't either, though I know i can't if I don't look through tcRunCycle ;)
15:36:13 <les_w> But will's code ddid such bad things that we figured it was best not there
15:36:29 <les_w> well good to have a look anyway
15:37:15 <SWPadnos> there are two questions - one is "what is the best way to blend?" and the other is "waht does the current code do?"
15:37:31 <cradek> I took approach #1 when #2 failed
15:37:37 <cradek> that's what simple_tp is about
15:37:40 <SWPadnos> yep
15:37:45 <cradek> I'm updating simple_tp today with the new changes
15:37:54 <SWPadnos> so maybe adding some blend code to that would be the best route to take
15:38:10 <cradek> maybe.  It still plans trapezoids a bit wrongly and I could use some help with that.
15:38:29 <cradek> once the trapezoids are right, I think it's not too hard to blend them
15:38:48 <SWPadnos> ok.  though we need to answer #1 before simple_tp can be made into not_so_simple_tp
15:38:51 <les_w> math is simple enough.
15:39:43 <cradek> yeah making some parabolas is not so hard
15:39:49 <les_w> right
15:44:26 <les_w> aw the hen is "not in the mood"
15:44:38 <SWPadnos> that always happens
15:44:45 <les_w> they need to get to know each other hahaha
15:44:57 <les_w> I seldom had that problem.
15:44:58 <SWPadnos> how many headaches can a person have before they should see a doctor?
15:45:17 <les_w> ?? lots I guess
15:45:27 <SWPadnos> heh - just kidding anyawy
15:54:01 <les_w> hey...anyone ever bought from carmax?
15:54:07 <SWPadnos> nope
15:54:37 <les_w> just wondering if their " no haggle price" is the bottom line
15:55:24 <les_w> ...while the shop heats up
15:56:05 <SWPadnos> hard to tell.  check kbb.com and consumer reports for "invoce prices"
15:56:20 <SWPadnos> or expected prices, or whatever they call them
15:56:26 <les_w> I have to test and install those optos
15:56:31 <les_w> I did check those
15:56:39 <les_w> they are always too high
15:57:38 <SWPadnos> ah - you're wondering if they'll haggle over the no-haggle price.  good qquestion
15:57:44 <les_w> yeah
15:58:34 <CIA-8> 03cradek 07simple_tp * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.h tp.c tp.h trajectory.h): update simple_tp to work again after recent changes
16:00:01 <CIA-8> 03cradek 07simple_tp * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/prflib.h: unused
16:39:13 <alex_joni> hello
16:39:36 <SWPadnos> hello
16:40:29 <les_w> ups man had a load.....piezos came!
16:40:31 <les_w> and
16:40:53 <les_w> rooster and hen are laying around having a smoke...
16:40:54 <les_w> haha
16:42:22 <SWPadnos> all Mr. UPS man brought me was new checks :(
16:42:34 <alex_joni> written out on your name?
16:43:13 <SWPadnos> yeah - as the payer, not payee
16:43:25 <alex_joni> too bad.. the other way around is more fun :)
16:43:34 <SWPadnos> it's so much better to be a funds sink rather than a source
16:45:45 <alex_joni> anyways.. I've been to that friend of mine last night, to talk about the linuxcnc website
16:46:22 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: not sure if you remember the thread on the users list some time ago
16:47:08 <SWPadnos> not sure - I remember some discussion on IRC though
16:47:31 <SWPadnos> ah - right, doing it over to look nice
16:47:40 <alex_joni> well, he gave it to his designer to come up with a nice redesign
16:47:41 <SWPadnos> and use php or the like
16:47:49 <alex_joni> and afterwards we'll worry about implementation
16:48:00 <alex_joni> although I kinda favor joomla
16:48:03 <alex_joni> ever seen that?
16:48:06 <SWPadnos> nope
16:48:10 <giacus> nice
16:48:10 <alex_joni>  http://www.joomla.org/
16:48:16 <giacus> cool
16:48:17 <giacus> :)
16:48:26 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: try it out, there's a demo there
16:48:32 <SWPadnos> looking now
16:49:16 <giacus> we use in in roboitalia
16:49:21 <giacus> it
16:50:04 <SWPadnos> I'm not looking at the code at this point, but I don't see it as that radically different (for the user) than things in php, or even slashcode
16:50:15 <SWPadnos> but the site looks nice
16:50:59 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: the idea is that joomla is a CMS
16:51:05 <alex_joni> you don't need to worry about the code
16:51:16 <alex_joni> it's a tool, and you can have it look almost anyhow
16:51:33 <SWPadnos> yep - I understand that, but setting up the CMS to run how you want can be a real pain
16:51:43 <SWPadnos> though there's an eventual payoff
16:52:37 <alex_joni> right
16:53:16 <SWPadnos> given that the preferred document for this group is lyx, I'm not sure how much traction you'll get for any web CMS ;)
16:53:21 <SWPadnos> document format
16:53:50 <giacus> http://www.docebolms.org/doceboCms/index.php
16:53:53 <SWPadnos> hah  -this is funny
16:53:58 <alex_joni> did you see how you can add/modify documents?
16:54:10 <SWPadnos> I get a bunch of smaps a day about "enlargement"
16:54:14 <SWPadnos> tspams
16:54:16 <SWPadnos> gah
16:54:22 <alex_joni> spams
16:54:28 <SWPadnos> anyway - here's a great subject line:
16:54:39 <SWPadnos> "Your partner will thank you. yuck"
16:55:01 <SWPadnos> they really should filter their random word lists
16:55:02 <alex_joni> lol
16:55:21 <alex_joni> probably that yuck is what makes it pass spamfilters ;)
16:55:27 <SWPadnos> heh
16:55:39 <bill2or3> don't worry, the one they send you tomorrow will have a better word.
16:55:40 <SWPadnos> I actually don't have any auto-delete filters set up, just auto-mark
16:55:47 <SWPadnos> I only get around 25-30/day
16:56:50 <giacus> I also get about 100/day
16:56:57 <giacus> 99 are porn :P
16:56:59 <giacus> haha
16:57:22 <alex_joni> I get around 6-10 on about 5 email accounts
16:57:26 <SWPadnos> see - the porn ones are OK, I just don't need enlargement or longevity (or an ocean of sperm)
16:57:37 <giacus> lol
16:57:49 <SWPadnos> but I hardly get any porn spam these days
16:58:20 <giacus> you shoud try hotmail for that :D
16:59:22 <SWPadnos> I don't need it badly enough to do that ;)
16:59:43 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (54 files in 30 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:59:43 <CIA-8> Revamp the build system of emc2.
16:59:43 <CIA-8> The make is "almost nonrecursive": All userspace targets are built from a single
16:59:43 <CIA-8> invocation of make, and then all realtime targets are built from a second
16:59:43 <CIA-8> invocation of make. For more information about why this is a good thing, read
16:59:44 <CIA-8> http://www.pcug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html
16:59:48 <CIA-8> On one test system, the time for a complete rebuild dropped 20% from 3:17 to
17:00:01 <cradek> wooo
17:00:16 <SWPadnos> to what - tell us, tell us!
17:00:23 <jepler> 3:17 * 80%
17:00:34 <SWPadnos> yeah  -I can do the math, but I'm American!
17:00:40 <jepler> 2:37
17:00:44 <giacus> * giacus wave to jepler 
17:00:50 <jepler> hi giacus 
17:00:55 <giacus> hello 
17:00:58 <cradek> jepler: can I change an include file and get a correct build without cleaning now?
17:00:58 <alex_joni> jepler: that sounds nice.. 
17:01:09 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks
17:01:15 <cradek> jepler: that's more important than 20% speedup to me
17:01:29 <bill2or3> I have what may be a totally stupid question.
17:01:56 <jepler> cradek: That should be true for the userspace targets; I'm less sure for "kbuild"
17:02:24 <bill2or3> if you're cutting a workpiece larger than the working area of your mill, can you unmount, move, and re-mount the workpiece to allow you to actually make it on a mill that's too small to do it all at once?
17:02:25 <SWPadnos> kbuild will just issue a make in the given directory, after initializing kernel-related stuff
17:02:47 <alex_joni> bill2or3: sure you can, you just need to make sure you are accurate enough on the mounting
17:03:13 <bill2or3> ok cool.  I'm trying to decide on a size for my DIY mill project.
17:03:14 <bill2or3> that helps
17:03:42 <bill2or3> I'm thinking I want a workspace of like 8" by 12".  
17:03:49 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/.cvsignore: fix ignores to match new Makefiles
17:03:50 <SWPadnos> but make sure that the workpiece isn't so big that the little mill can't move it, or that the miill tips over when it's in some position
17:03:50 <cradek> often making a part takes several/many mountings
17:04:00 <alex_joni> I always overengineer about 30-40% ;)
17:04:14 <SWPadnos> I guess I'm a worse engineer - I go for 50-100%
17:04:15 <bill2or3> heh.
17:04:17 <SWPadnos> :)
17:04:25 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: let's say more cautious
17:04:30 <bill2or3> I just dont want to make something that takes over my garage.
17:04:35 <SWPadnos> paranoid is fine
17:04:40 <alex_joni> and eats you up one day
17:04:41 <alex_joni> :D
17:06:19 <jepler> wow that commit dropped a bunch of e-mails in my mailbox
17:06:21 <alex_joni> jepler: one question
17:06:30 <alex_joni> yeah, one email / directory
17:06:38 <alex_joni> I am reading through the Makefile now
17:06:58 <alex_joni> does this build rtapi.ko or rtai_rtapi.ko ?
17:06:59 <alex_joni> # Subdirectory:  rtapi
17:07:00 <alex_joni> obj-$(CONFIG_RTAPI) += rtapi/$(RTPREFIX)_rtapi.o
17:07:02 <SWPadnos> okly like 30 or so
17:07:34 <jepler> alex_joni: hmm, good question
17:07:52 <alex_joni> because it seems to me it's rtai_rtapi.ko
17:07:53 <jepler> alex_joni: Looks like it's going to build rtapi/rtai_rtapi.ko which is probably wrong
17:07:56 <SWPadnos> rtai_rtapi.ko
17:07:58 <alex_joni> yes
17:08:33 <alex_joni> make that obj-$(CONFIG_RTAPI) += rtapi/rtapi.o
17:08:45 <jepler> yeah, I'm not rebuilding rtapi.ko
17:09:10 <alex_joni> rtapi-objs := rtapi/$(CONFIG_RTAPI)_rtapi.o
17:09:59 <jepler> I tested that emc would still start up, but I didn't catch that the old rtapi.ko was still there from the old build 
17:10:13 <alex_joni> ok, just struck me odd by reading the file..
17:10:25 <jepler> (I mean $(TOP)/rtlib/rtapi.ko)
17:11:11 <alex_joni> yeah I know
17:11:36 <SWPadnos> hmmm - the axis binary should be deleted if there are changes to the headers it uses
17:11:56 <SWPadnos> that would be easier to manage if axis were a part of emc2 ;)
17:12:11 <alex_joni> jepler: I did some of the 2.6 port in the makefiles, but I'm a bit lost in this Makefile (lots more complicated than what I'm used to ;)
17:12:20 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: build the rtapi kernel module with the right name
17:12:21 <alex_joni> so I guess other people will be even more confused..
17:12:35 <alex_joni> maybe you could hack up a short info
17:12:46 <SWPadnos> I didn't get copies of the new files in the commit messages, just that they had been created
17:13:00 <alex_joni> there are no new files
17:13:06 <SWPadnos> submakefile?
17:13:08 <jepler> alex_joni: there were a bunch of new files (Submakefiles)
17:13:13 <alex_joni> ahh.. right
17:14:53 <fenn> bleh.. joomla is all borked in konqueror
17:15:08 <alex_joni> fenn: who cares about konqueror?
17:15:17 <alex_joni> konqueror is borked by itself :D
17:15:20 <alex_joni> kidding..
17:15:44 <alex_joni> looks fine in firefox, opera, IE, lynx, w3m, over here
17:16:32 <fenn> er, lynx doesnt really work right actually
17:16:42 <alex_joni> almost
17:16:43 <alex_joni> :D
17:17:47 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: always use 'gcc' (assuming it's gcc 3 or better) to generate dependency information for "C" source files, because gcc-2.95 doesn't accept the right flags
17:22:44 <alex_joni> jepler: I don't see the install rule anymore..
17:22:56 <alex_joni> maybe I'm looking in the wrong location ?
17:27:18 <jepler> alex_joni: That's one of the notes in the log entry .. there's not an install target yet
17:28:17 <jepler> but, argh, first I have to fix this compile problem that exists on bdi4 but didn't show up on ubuntu
17:28:37 <alex_joni> what's that?
17:28:42 <cradek> welcome to the wonderful world of backward compatibility
17:28:46 <jepler> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include/stdarg.h:54: warning: `va_copy' redefined
17:28:47 <jepler> include/linux/compiler-gcc2.h:29: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
17:29:01 <alex_joni> that's a warning :)
17:29:07 <jepler> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include/stdarg.h:43: parse error before `__gnuc_va_list'
17:29:10 <alex_joni> since when do programmers care about warnings?
17:29:14 <alex_joni> argh
17:29:15 <alex_joni> :D
17:29:24 <cradek> when they weren't there before you changed something
17:30:43 <alex_joni> :(
17:31:17 <jepler> gcc-2.95 -Wp,-MD,/home/emc/emc2/src/libnml/posemath/.sincos.o.d  -nostdinc -isystem /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include
17:31:26 <cradek> oops
17:31:29 <jepler> this seems a bit suspect, to call gcc-2.95 ... -isystem ...3.3.5...
17:31:35 <cradek> yeah, that doesn't seem right at all
17:31:39 <jepler> but the -isystem isn't from my makefile
17:32:19 <alex_joni> jepler: http://lists.samba.org/archive/distcc/2003q1/000651.html
17:32:22 <cradek> NOSTDINC_FLAGS += -nostdinc -isystem $(shell $(CC) -print-file-name=include)
17:32:37 <cradek> you must not have $(CC) set right?
17:32:55 <cradek> % gcc-2.95 -print-file-name=include
17:32:55 <cradek> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.4/include
17:32:57 <jepler> then were did gcc-2.95 in the commandline come from?
17:33:18 <alex_joni> jepler: what does Makefile.inc say?
17:33:30 <jepler> cradek: yeah, maybe that fixes it
17:33:30 <alex_joni> CC = @CC@
17:34:33 <jepler> Missing rtapi.conf. Did you run 'make rtapi' ?
17:34:49 <alex_joni> rtapi.conf was generated by one of the makefiles
17:34:53 <jepler> oops
17:34:55 <alex_joni> rtapi/Makefile iirc
17:35:46 <alex_joni> jepler: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc2/src/rtapi/Makefile?rev=1.39&view=markup
17:37:46 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: Pass CC to kernel build
17:37:57 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/rtapi/Submakefile: Build rtpai.conf
17:39:40 <cradek> whee look at it go
17:41:32 <alex_joni> jepler's on a roll
17:41:49 <jepler> it still doesn't work on bdi4
17:43:47 <jepler> [1969250.367776] rtapi: Unknown symbol nano2count
17:46:32 <SWPadnos> I got no errors on my bdi4 build
17:46:38 <jepler> SWPadnos: does it run?
17:46:46 <SWPadnos> well - I didn't try that :)
17:46:53 <jepler> I get an error inserting rtapi.ko
17:46:54 <SWPadnos> lemme install axis and see
17:48:48 <SWPadnos> actually, I get about 30 or so unknown symbols from rtapi
17:48:56 <jepler> yeah, me too
17:49:03 <jepler> "scripts/realtime start" doesn't work
17:49:13 <SWPadnos> right
17:49:27 <jepler> shouldn't it insmod something before rtapi.ko?
17:50:25 <alex_joni> jepler: adeos is the first
17:50:55 <jepler> $ sh -x ./scripts/realtime start 2>&1 | grep -i adeos
17:50:55 <jepler> $ 
17:51:00 <jepler> maybe rtapi.conf is still incorrect
17:51:27 <alex_joni> check .runinfo
17:51:31 <alex_joni> rtlib/.runinfo
17:51:37 <alex_joni> and let me know what's in there
17:52:20 <SWPadnos> one byte
17:52:20 <cradek> .runinfo isn't used anymore
17:53:18 <jepler>  # List of realtime kernel modules to be loaded
17:53:18 <jepler> -MODULES=''
17:53:18 <jepler> +MODULES='adeos rtai_hal rtai_ksched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_sem rtai_math'
17:53:19 <alex_joni> .runinfo is looked at by rtai-load I think
17:53:27 <jepler> OK, I think I know what's wrong ..
17:53:31 <cradek> rtai-load isn't used anymore
17:53:37 <cradek> jepler: where is liblxrt?
17:53:38 <alex_joni> cradek: ok
17:53:44 <jepler> cradek: what's liblxrt?
17:53:53 <cradek> I'm not sure
17:54:08 <jepler> The empty list is from the new rtapi.conf
17:54:53 <cradek> % nm /usr/lib/liblxrt.a |grep nano2count
17:54:53 <cradek> 000016ac T nano2count
17:54:53 <cradek> 000019b0 T nano2count_cpuid
17:54:58 <alex_joni> yes, because RTAI_MOD doesn't exist anymore
17:56:54 <alex_joni> that's odd.. 
17:57:07 <jepler> yay, now it runs on bdi4
17:57:13 <alex_joni> jepler: you missed something :)
17:57:18 <alex_joni> 19:57 < cradek> jepler: where is liblxrt?
17:57:22 <alex_joni> darn
17:57:27 <alex_joni> # This is a list of the realtime modules provided by the OS
17:57:27 <alex_joni> # that are to be loaded - Some will not be present on certain
17:57:29 <alex_joni> # systems, but they still need to be listed if systems that do have
17:57:29 <alex_joni> # them are to work.
17:57:29 <alex_joni> RTAI_MOD="adeos rtai rt_mem_mgr rtai_sched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_libm"
17:57:32 <alex_joni> # For RTAI-3, we need to condsider using the RTAI scripts to load these modules.
17:57:34 <alex_joni> RTAI3_MOD="adeos rtai_hal rtai_ksched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_sem rtai_math"
17:57:37 <alex_joni> RTAI3_RUN="emc2:ksched+fifos+shm+sem+math"
17:57:39 <alex_joni> RTL_MOD="rtl mbuff rtl_time rtl_sched rtl_posixio rtl_fifo"
17:57:42 <alex_joni> that was in rtapi/Makefile
17:59:46 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/rtapi/Submakefile: additional environment variables for rtapi.conf script
18:02:06 <SWPadnos> hmm - I wasn't able to get it to work just by cvs up / make
18:02:14 <cradek> yay, it runs for me
18:02:16 <jepler> alex_joni: If not earlier, I'll try to be around on sunday to answer questions about the new Makefile+Submakefile system
18:02:24 <SWPadnos> should I still configure or make clean (or make dep...)?
18:02:27 <alex_joni> ok, does it still work on 2.4 ?
18:02:30 <alex_joni> and 2.2 ?
18:02:38 <cradek> alex_joni: haha, good one
18:02:45 <alex_joni> cradek: I'm very serious
18:02:49 <alex_joni> no joke
18:02:49 <cradek> SWPadnos: rm scripts/rtapi.conf
18:02:52 <SWPadnos> that's the crux of jmk's email
18:02:54 <SWPadnos> ok
18:02:55 <jepler> alex_joni: No, I don't have access to the systems to test that
18:03:00 <cradek> I know, I know
18:03:08 <alex_joni> jepler: that's not the best thing :(
18:03:18 <cradek> alex_joni: that's the point of the compile farm
18:03:28 <cradek> alex_joni: none of us have all the systems; that doesn't mean we should never change anything
18:03:30 <alex_joni> ok, but is it supposed to work on that?
18:03:38 <alex_joni> that's really the question..
18:03:40 <cradek> yes
18:03:42 <steve_stallings> steve_stallings has joined #emc
18:03:47 <alex_joni> ok then
18:03:47 <cradek> sorry, I shouldn't have been joking
18:03:55 <SWPadnos> much better.  now if only emc starup were sped up by the same amount ;)
18:04:05 <alex_joni> hi steve
18:10:04 <jepler> alex_joni: see my mailing list post
18:10:27 <alex_joni> I don't see it..
18:10:42 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks if it ain't held back because you're not subscribed
18:10:44 <SWPadnos> well - once it gets delivered :)
18:11:18 <SWPadnos> no - he's allowed to send to that list - there was the git announcement
18:13:54 <alex_joni> it just took a while
18:14:01 <alex_joni> it eventually arrived
18:14:10 <SWPadnos> yep
18:14:21 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you got it wrong about the IO stuff ;)
18:14:30 <SWPadnos> which part?
18:14:36 <alex_joni> check my latest email
18:14:45 <SWPadnos> as soon as it arrives ;)
18:14:51 <alex_joni> it did already
18:14:57 <SWPadnos> not here
18:15:04 <SWPadnos> if it was in response to my email
18:15:08 <alex_joni> yes
18:15:22 <alex_joni> we were talking about the string passed at insmod time:
18:15:23 <alex_joni> insmod hal_stg dio="IIOO"  (or loadrt hal_stg dio="IIOO")
18:15:23 <alex_joni> that means the first 16 bits are input, the next 16 are output.
18:15:36 <SWPadnos> yep
18:15:52 <alex_joni> so basicly standardisation towards the user, not only inside the driver
18:16:04 <SWPadnos> yes - that's exactly what I was talking about
18:16:18 <SWPadnos> I think jmk did a quick driver for an I/O board for the Mazak
18:16:18 <alex_joni> > Is there a reason why you would force a user to have half inputs and 
18:16:20 <alex_joni> > half outputs?
18:16:39 <alex_joni> that's the functionality of the board
18:16:50 <alex_joni> to allow 0..3 and 4..7 to be set independently
18:16:59 <alex_joni> either as inputs or outputs
18:17:01 <SWPadnos> well - hea said that it can be in+out or out+in
18:17:10 <alex_joni> so user can do: io, oi, ii, oo
18:17:34 <alex_joni> he did not
18:17:36 <SWPadnos> you're thinking that he meant to use lower case for nibble-wide I/O specs?
18:17:40 <alex_joni> YES
18:17:47 <SWPadnos> ok - that's not how I read it
18:17:59 <alex_joni> try to turn it upside down, and read again
18:18:06 <SWPadnos> "I was thinking of using lower case "i" for bits 0-3 configured and inputs"
18:18:14 <giacus> he didnt know 
18:18:18 <SWPadnos> and 4-7 as outputs - that weas truncated
18:18:22 <giacus> who was singing this song ?
18:18:34 <giacus> :P
18:18:48 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you might have a point..
18:19:00 <SWPadnos> that's why I responded that way :)
18:19:36 <SWPadnos> he had mentioned that "obviously he wanted half in and half out" - that's not obvious to me
18:19:50 <SWPadnos> (well, maybe for him, but not for everyone)
18:21:40 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: guess both emails were too vague for me ;)
18:22:50 <SWPadnos> heh
18:23:00 <giacus> it was 'I didnt know' .. if I remember well
18:23:12 <giacus> who wah the band ?
18:23:24 <SWPadnos> Benny Hill
18:23:27 <giacus> * giacus hitting the head on the wall
18:23:30 <giacus> nahhh
18:23:38 <giacus> 80's
18:23:41 <alex_joni> giacus: why don't you ask google?
18:23:50 <giacus> tryng .. :(
18:24:14 <giacus> too much titles result
18:24:17 <SWPadnos> I still don't know what song you're talking about :)
18:24:27 <SWPadnos> but Benny Hill seemed like a good guess anyway
18:24:33 <giacus> I will find it !
18:24:36 <giacus> :D
18:24:55 <giacus> it was he didnt know
18:25:02 <giacus> or she didnt know
18:25:06 <giacus> or something..
18:25:24 <giacus> was a very nice song :)
18:25:31 <alex_joni> I don't know
18:25:35 <alex_joni> ROFL
18:25:45 <giacus> the leader was a male
18:25:50 <SWPadnos> "nobody knew"
18:25:52 <giacus> a band
18:25:56 <giacus> nope..
18:26:06 <SWPadnos> do you have some of the actual words?
18:26:11 <SWPadnos> from the song
18:26:16 <giacus> thinking ..
18:26:33 <alex_joni> humm us the melody like this: mmm mmhmm hmmmhmmhm mmhmhmhm
18:26:38 <alex_joni> lol
18:26:40 <giacus> :)
18:26:57 <giacus> was a band , im sure
18:27:09 <giacus> was a sweet song
18:27:11 <SWPadnos> fast or slow?  "beat-box" or synth (or country, house, rock, rockabilly ...)
18:27:17 <giacus> soft
18:27:30 <SWPadnos> Kenny Rogers
18:27:33 <giacus> nope
18:27:39 <giacus> was a band
18:27:40 <SWPadnos> no - wait, Lionel Ritchie
18:27:45 <SWPadnos> oh - right.
18:27:47 <SWPadnos> Air Supply
18:28:08 <les_w> ach
18:28:27 <giacus> les !
18:28:32 <giacus> hahaha, ciao :)
18:28:40 <les_w> hi giacus
18:28:57 <giacus> do you remember that band ?
18:29:11 <giacus> was the time of Frankie goes to Hollywood
18:29:17 <giacus> maybe before
18:29:27 <les_w> air supply?
18:29:31 <les_w> bleh
18:29:42 <les_w> haha
18:29:48 <giacus> PHD !
18:29:54 <giacus> maybe ..
18:30:11 <giacus> no :(
18:30:26 <les_w> I need to buy some cds
18:30:33 <les_w> must drive a long way
18:30:37 <giacus> was something like PHD
18:30:43 <les_w> ?
18:30:43 <giacus> the name of the band
18:30:44 <les_w> hmm
18:31:08 <giacus> p8d ..
18:32:01 <les_w> I usually play either old 60's rock or jazz
18:32:33 <les_w> did you like the songs I picked?
18:32:42 <giacus> nope
18:32:45 <giacus> ops
18:32:48 <giacus> sorry :)
18:32:51 <giacus> sure
18:32:52 <les_w> haha
18:32:55 <giacus> haha
18:32:57 <giacus> :)
18:33:00 <SWPadnos> so "The Who" and U2 aren't in the mix, huh
18:33:13 <giacus> sure they was phd
18:33:21 <giacus> now looking for the title
18:33:27 <les_w> the who perhaps
18:33:50 <SWPadnos> "Behind Blue Eyes" is a good song for good audio systems
18:33:52 <giacus> I won't let you down, won't let you down again x3
18:33:59 <giacus> do you remember that  :P
18:34:08 <giacus> http://www.risa.co.uk/sla/song.php?songid=15046
18:34:19 <giacus> but wasnt what im searching
18:34:20 <les_w> it was neat when I played a diana Krall song then k4ts sang the same song
18:34:23 <SWPadnos> nope - just "Don't Bring Me Down" by ELO
18:34:45 <giacus> uhmm im confusing
18:34:54 <giacus> they was not the phd band then ..
18:34:59 <SWPadnos> so, do Steely Dan or Donald Fagen fit in there?
18:35:00 <giacus> mmm
18:36:18 <SWPadnos> oh - of course there's "The Moody Blues", for good '60s rock (and leter)
18:36:21 <SWPadnos> later
18:36:23 <SWPadnos> that is
18:37:53 <giacus> darn.. i must go for the dinner
18:37:56 <giacus> later
18:38:12 <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_dinner
18:38:50 <les_w> oh fyi swp....carmax does not haggle
18:39:51 <les_w> ach forgot to order a fuseblock. All those boxes and still missing a part
18:57:31 <SWPadnos> ok - I figured as much :)
18:57:44 <SWPadnos> what size/type fuses?
18:59:01 <alex_joni> * alex_joni has some 150Amps fuses lying around
18:59:08 <alex_joni> the big ceramic type :D
18:59:31 <alex_joni> they are meant 1 / phase
19:00:20 <SWPadnos> air conditioner fuses
19:00:50 <alex_joni> depends on the AC
19:02:08 <SWPadnos> indeed
19:02:54 <alex_joni> how do you rate your AC' over there? kW?
19:03:06 <alex_joni> over here it's some silly BTU standard :D
19:03:17 <SWPadnos> same here
19:03:21 <SWPadnos> or tons
19:03:29 <alex_joni> ROFL
19:03:31 <SWPadnos> (whatever those are)
19:03:41 <alex_joni> I wouldn't ever have thought US people use BTU
19:03:44 <alex_joni> ROFLMAO
19:03:55 <SWPadnos> yeah - it's so British ;)
19:04:05 <alex_joni> BTU=British Thermal Units
19:04:15 <SWPadnos> yep
19:04:57 <SWPadnos> aha - one ton is 12000 BTU/hour
19:05:21 <alex_joni> lol.. then I guess our office AC is 3 tons
19:05:26 <SWPadnos> = 3.516 kW
19:05:51 <giacus_dinner> giacus_dinner is now known as giacus
19:05:53 <giacus> yeahh
19:06:09 <giacus> damn it ! I found it in my old disc 45
19:06:11 <giacus> :D
19:06:24 <alex_joni> tell us
19:06:28 <giacus> Ph.D - I didnt Know
19:06:33 <giacus> :)
19:06:38 <alex_joni> never heard
19:06:49 <SWPadnos> never heard of either :)
19:07:06 <giacus> * giacus scanning the cover.. :P
19:07:39 <alex_joni> oh, it's italian
19:07:46 <giacus> nope ..
19:07:48 <alex_joni> http://www.netsoundsmusic.com/nsudsii/2/6006412/311/2.html
19:08:01 <giacus> no no ..
19:08:12 <alex_joni> yes yes
19:08:17 <SWPadnos> why why
19:08:23 <giacus> :)
19:08:26 <alex_joni> google doesn't lie
19:08:57 <giacus> hey guys are you watching The tutin olimpiadi 
19:09:02 <giacus> turin
19:09:08 <SWPadnos> nope
19:09:20 <SWPadnos> if I were there, I would be :)
19:09:22 <giacus> look, its nice :)
19:09:25 <giacus> right now
19:11:04 <giacus> its starting ..
19:11:52 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: care for a nice radio?
19:11:59 <alex_joni> webstream I mean
19:12:10 <SWPadnos> mot really, thanks :)
19:12:13 <SWPadnos> not
19:12:26 <alex_joni> found one that's really great
19:12:30 <alex_joni> np
19:13:00 <SWPadnos> any idea where to find the hole pattern for the X and Y axis bearing brackets on a Bridgeport series 1?
19:13:59 <fenn> hmmm make tgz is no longer there..
19:14:21 <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/PHD.jpg
19:14:23 <giacus> wow
19:14:24 <alex_joni> fenn: a few things aren't there yet
19:14:29 <giacus> was that ! 
19:15:07 <giacus> hard to find on the net
19:15:10 <fenn> right-o
19:15:41 <giacus> wonderful song :P
19:16:22 <alex_joni> giacus: celentano now on the radio ;)
19:16:28 <giacus> hehe
19:16:35 <giacus> let me look at turin ;P
19:16:39 <alex_joni> I think..
19:16:47 <alex_joni> http://encoder2.rdsnet.ro:8000/live
19:17:15 <giacus> :-)
19:18:07 <giacus> http://www.torino2006.org/ENG/OlympicGames/home/index.html
19:18:08 <giacus> :P
19:20:49 <alex_joni> looks like joomla
19:21:08 <giacus> dunno
19:21:58 <giacus> Opening Ceremony with Sofia Loren, Yoko Ono and Susan Sarandon
19:22:41 <alex_joni> hmm.. seems RTAI-3.3 got released last week
19:22:44 <alex_joni> I missed that
19:26:30 <giacus> wow
19:34:56 <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_turin_200
19:35:01 <giacus_turin_200> giacus_turin_200 is now known as giacus_turin_06
19:35:03 <giacus_turin_06> :P
19:35:36 <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/219-hugedog.jpg
19:35:56 <giacus_turin_06> haha
19:36:04 <giacus_turin_06> an horse
19:37:22 <alex_joni> then what's this: http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/205-hugemuscles.jpg ?
19:37:50 <cradek> ewwwww
19:37:58 <giacus_turin_06> eeek
19:38:02 <giacus_turin_06> :)
19:38:46 <alex_joni> heh, chris do you have a lot of drive-in's in the US?
19:38:54 <cradek> do you mean food or movie?
19:38:59 <alex_joni> I only heard of drive-through till now
19:39:00 <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/197-drivein.jpg
19:39:11 <fenn> that is totally a balloon suit
19:39:32 <cradek> alex_joni: ok I get the joke
19:40:41 <alex_joni> some nice pics at davesdaily ;)
19:41:32 <fenn> http://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/huge_muscles.jpg
19:42:13 <giacus_turin_06> hahaha maded with gimp ?
19:42:48 <alex_joni> hahaha http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/172-canyoufindthekid.jpg
19:43:32 <giacus_turin_06> he's a good fork :)
19:44:04 <giacus_turin_06> denmark  ..
19:44:17 <giacus_turin_06> alex_joni: are you in the olimpic games ?
19:45:04 <alex_joni> no,  I'm in bed
19:45:08 <alex_joni> I'm tired today
19:46:52 <giacus_turin_06> your country is strong :D
19:47:13 <alex_joni> seems there are quite a few drive-in's in the US (http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/147-drivein.jpg)
19:47:22 <alex_joni> giacus_turin_06: oh, thought you were asking me :D
19:47:33 <giacus_turin_06> :-))
19:52:28 <alex_joni> lol, now that's a workstation http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/1130-workstation.jpg
19:53:01 <giacus_turin_06> nice laptop 
19:54:05 <SWPadnos> for some reason, I can't view the images you link
19:54:10 <SWPadnos> I get "hotlink.gif" instead
19:54:50 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: huh?
19:54:53 <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/90-pissedofftree.jpg
19:55:12 <SWPadnos> the davesdaily.com images - I get a blank image called hotlink.gif
19:55:25 <SWPadnos> http://media3.davesdaily.com/hotlink.gif is what I get
19:55:48 <alex_joni> try www instead of media3, remove the 7 from pictures7, and make the ending htm
19:55:59 <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/90-pissedofftree.htm
19:56:17 <SWPadnos> yep - that works
19:58:13 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: any woods / bears around where you are?
19:58:42 <SWPadnos> yes, both
19:59:07 <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/68-bear.htm <- might be a bit much for weak hearted ;)
20:00:25 <SWPadnos> indeed
20:03:42 <fenn> people who keep bears for pets should be sent to jail!!!
20:04:29 <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/22-bush.htm
20:07:12 <SWPadnos> that one, I like ;)
20:08:01 <fenn> http://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/love_your_job.gif
20:24:14 <ValarQ> fenn: they are (at least here)
20:24:33 <alex_joni> hi ValarQ 
20:24:36 <fenn> i was joking.. obviously the bear wasnt the guy's pet..
20:24:47 <ValarQ> alex_joni: hiya
20:24:55 <alex_joni> what's up captain?
20:25:18 <ValarQ> heh, i was just about to comment that you missed the false title :)
20:25:25 <alex_joni> no way
20:25:26 <alex_joni> :D
20:26:08 <ValarQ> and i even got a debianversion named after my title... :P
20:26:18 <alex_joni> ?
20:27:23 <ValarQ> have you replaced the crap in the cvs tree yet?
20:27:38 <ValarQ> i saw some discution about it on the mailinglist
20:28:24 <SWPadnos> hey - forgot it was there ;)
20:28:35 <SWPadnos> I thought it had been added, but didn't remember where
20:28:52 <alex_joni> hal/utils/halgui?
20:28:59 <ValarQ> yeah
20:29:12 <alex_joni> my memory seems to serve me right.. still
20:29:37 <SWPadnos> hmmm - it needs gnome
20:29:43 <SWPadnos> or at least gnomecanvas
20:29:48 <ValarQ> yeah, should be tk...
20:29:50 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: add it ;)
20:29:57 <fenn> i played around with it alittle but never did anything with it..
20:30:01 <fenn> swp check the wiki page..
20:30:12 <SWPadnos> could do, and may ;)
20:30:20 <ValarQ> requires pretty late versions of the pygtk libraries as well
20:30:33 <ValarQ> a tk interface would be much better
20:30:42 <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Crapahalic
20:30:45 <ValarQ> especially since emc uses it
20:31:52 <alex_joni> ok, I decided I need one of these: http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/scalableservers/superdome/index.html
20:32:00 <SWPadnos> funny - I went to write a C Din ubuntu, and I get an estimate of 1195432 hours, 45 minutes, 15 seconds ;)
20:32:03 <SWPadnos> CD in
20:32:19 <SWPadnos> like the extra 15 seconds is gonna matter ;)
20:32:51 <ValarQ> :)
20:33:22 <alex_joni> lol, Operating temperature: 20°C to 30°C
20:33:33 <ValarQ> alex_joni: runs Hockey-Pux :P
20:33:43 <SWPadnos> only 1 TB RAM, come on
20:33:54 <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it's for me, homebox
20:34:00 <SWPadnos> wimpy
20:34:01 <alex_joni> I figure it's enough for starters
20:34:07 <alex_joni> upgrade later
20:34:24 <SWPadnos> of course, you could control a lot of robots with 192 M5I20 cards ;)
20:34:55 <alex_joni> hotswappable robots :D
20:35:07 <SWPadnos> hotswappable factories
20:35:39 <ValarQ> i would settle with one of these: http://www.sgi.com/products/servers/altix/4000/configs.html
20:36:05 <SWPadnos> this:  http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8qsdpro.html
20:36:20 <ValarQ> * ValarQ is looking at the 4700 model
20:36:25 <SWPadnos> with the daughterboard, and fully loaded with RAM and Opteron 880 (or better) would be just fine with me
20:36:57 <ValarQ> up to 128TB RAM per system :D
20:37:06 <SWPadnos> Meg, I think ;)
20:37:13 <SWPadnos> I mena Gig :)
20:37:15 <SWPadnos> mean
20:37:33 <ValarQ> nope :)
20:37:40 <SWPadnos> oh cool - you can still spend $2500+ on an Opteron chip
20:37:47 <SWPadnos> oh - the SGI
20:38:20 <ValarQ> yep, their latest monster
20:38:53 <SWPadnos> only 48G per module though
20:39:26 <SWPadnos> that Tyna board can actually take 64G on the motherboard, and another 4 on the daughtercard (with an additional 4 dual-core CPUs)
20:39:29 <SWPadnos> Tyan - damn
20:39:44 <alex_joni> damn Tyna
20:39:46 <alex_joni> :)
20:39:58 <SWPadnos> friggin tynas - a bear should eat them all
20:40:13 <ValarQ> :)
20:40:39 <ValarQ> * ValarQ just got his new x64 crapmachine
20:40:53 <SWPadnos> what did you get?
20:41:09 <ValarQ> some new pc crap
20:41:29 <ValarQ> an Athlon64 X2
20:41:38 <jepler> why are you calling it crap?
20:41:51 <ValarQ> jepler: it's build upon intels architecture
20:42:17 <jepler> with enough transistors, everything is fast///
20:42:29 <ValarQ> yeah
20:42:42 <SWPadnos> for ValarQ, everything is crap ;)
20:42:51 <ValarQ> SWPadnos: almost :)
20:42:57 <alex_joni> skit
20:43:03 <ValarQ> SWPadnos: that 4700 isn't ;)
20:43:23 <SWPadnos> well - it's crap that you (probably) can't afford it then ;)
20:43:31 <alex_joni> jepler: I think modern processors are a mockery
20:43:40 <ValarQ> alex_joni: i can hear you have taken a more "mastering swedish" lessons :)
20:43:50 <ValarQ> SWPadnos: thats true
20:43:51 <alex_joni> ValarQ: no, that was memory actually
20:44:06 <ValarQ> alex_joni: i don't belive you
20:44:20 <ValarQ> alex_joni: i guess you're hooked on that stuff by now :P
20:44:40 <alex_joni> jepler: having about 15-20% leaking currents from the power consumption..
20:44:50 <alex_joni> ValarQ: not really
20:45:05 <ValarQ> alex_joni: ok, had enough of it in lund?
20:45:27 <ValarQ> alex_joni: remember that not all of us speak as weird as those SkĂĽningar
20:45:48 <jepler> A few months I chose not to get an X2 for my new machine .. I wonder if it was the right decision.
20:45:53 <jepler> ValarQ: what motherboard chipset in your machine?
20:46:04 <ValarQ> jepler: nforce
20:46:06 <SWPadnos> it was if you didn't spend more than $150 or so on the CPU you chose
20:46:22 <ValarQ> i hope it works with my adaptec raidcard :/
20:46:33 <SWPadnos> though the shift to DDR2 late this or early next year may throw a wrench in the works
20:47:15 <jepler> SWPadnos: for the CPU itself?  It was Sempron 64 300+, socket 754.  $89 at the time.
20:47:35 <SWPadnos> well, then you probably saved enough to be able to buy an A64 later
20:47:56 <jepler> No X2s for this socket, though, so I get stuck buying a new motherboard too
20:48:02 <SWPadnos> yep
20:48:18 <alex_joni> * alex_joni still runs an 1600 AthlonXP
20:48:22 <ValarQ> can't wait to test my machine...
20:48:22 <jepler> ValarQ: Is nforce an okay chipset with linux these days?
20:48:28 <ValarQ> jepler: dunno
20:48:29 <alex_joni> and I really see no need for faster ;)
20:48:33 <SWPadnos> me, too - I'm on an Athlon XP 1800 right now
20:48:37 <ValarQ> jepler: my current works pretty ok
20:48:39 <jepler> alex_joni: I replaced a 350MHz machine
20:48:46 <SWPadnos> though I hope the new software works well on the Opteron as well
20:48:48 <alex_joni> that's 1600MHz, right SWP?
20:48:55 <SWPadnos> 1533, I think
20:49:02 <alex_joni> ok
20:49:06 <ValarQ> i have some assemblyjob to do on my new machine, but i must get sober first :(
20:49:17 <jepler> er, the Sempron I bought was "3000+", 1.8GHz core speed.
20:49:21 <SWPadnos> it may not be an XP - it's a PC133 / KT133 motherboard
20:49:23 <alex_joni> try to stick the CPU directly into the PCI
20:49:41 <ValarQ> alex_joni: ah, thats a well known trick :)
20:49:52 <alex_joni> btw, did you read about watercooling?
20:50:30 <ValarQ> nope, where?
20:50:34 <SWPadnos> heh - watercooling is why I originally started the CNC thing ;)
20:50:53 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks for an URI
20:51:10 <SWPadnos> silentpcreview.com or somewhere like that
20:52:29 <alex_joni> no, got a better link.. only if I would find it :(
20:53:37 <SWPadnos> www.wawter-cooling.com?
20:53:41 <SWPadnos> water, that is
20:53:50 <les_w> what does a p4 dissipate now? couple hundred watts?
20:54:01 <SWPadnos> 140 to 220 or so
20:54:03 <SWPadnos> I think
20:54:18 <les_w> sounds about right
20:54:24 <SWPadnos> the mobile ones are much better
20:54:36 <les_w> I would imagine
20:54:51 <SWPadnos> the Opterons are 55, 95, or 130W
20:55:17 <SWPadnos> per chip, so the dual-core chips are the same as single-core for the same power rating
20:55:21 <les_w> makes me think of the amps in the music room
20:55:33 <SWPadnos> heh - 7.1 CPU channels ;)
20:55:34 <les_w> hmm 3500w @65% efficiency?
20:55:41 <SWPadnos> 5kw
20:56:38 <les_w> it's a good heater. Course I don't run it at 3500 (much)
20:56:50 <SWPadnos> have to be next door to be able to hear
20:57:26 <les_w> I am still not quite ready for PWM audio....
20:57:35 <les_w> it's getting better though
20:57:52 <SWPadnos> the hybrid amps are pretty good
20:57:58 <les_w> yeah
20:58:02 <SWPadnos> class A+D, I think
20:58:03 <les_w> good specs anyway
20:58:28 <SWPadnos> well - the "sound" won't be the same as tubes for a while ;)
20:58:46 <alex_joni> ValarQ: FOUND IT
20:58:48 <alex_joni> http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56924
20:58:56 <les_w> I had the fender crankin in the music room last night
20:59:03 <les_w> 6l6 williamson
20:59:11 <SWPadnos> heh - that one
20:59:21 <jepler> somebody posted that thread awhile back.  pretty funny.
21:00:38 <alex_joni> yeah I did..
21:02:40 <les_w> I had an optically pumped Yag laser that ran submersed in DI water
21:04:11 <alex_joni> without kidding, I've seen movies of PC's running submerged in oil
21:04:20 <les_w> Hey I ought to try a tube of that "silicon"
21:05:31 <giacus_turin_06> giacus_turin_06 has quit
21:05:31 <les_w> I just ordered some high Tg conductive epoxy...60 bucks an ounce.
21:06:39 <les_w> even though materials cost under $5
21:06:53 <les_w> Can make it later in house
21:06:56 <SWPadnos> not unlike diamonds
21:07:13 <les_w> heh yeah
21:07:46 <les_w> Well we have formulated and used thousands of kilos of my silver screen printing ink
21:08:26 <les_w> It's good stuff...well under 20 milliohms/square/mil
21:09:09 <SWPadnos> in any direction?
21:09:28 <les_w> I still have the two german astra 3 roll mills I developed the stuff with
21:09:36 <les_w> bought em from moto
21:09:42 <les_w> yes any direction
21:10:13 <SWPadnos> do you get an oxidation layer, or will it conduct if you lay two sheets on top of each other?
21:10:15 <les_w> it's quite anisotropic
21:10:48 <les_w> silver oxide is conductive....
21:11:07 <SWPadnos> as conductive as silver?
21:11:10 <les_w> but in the heater product it is sealed between two layers of PET
21:11:41 <alex_joni> " Look at it this way, you're famous...You may not realize it, but half of the computer enthuasist and overclocking community is linking to this thread right now...=)"
21:11:45 <alex_joni> lol
21:11:45 <les_w> no not as conductive....butas a membrane switch is can function well for years
21:12:31 <SWPadnos> I'm thinking board interconnect (not a specific application though)
21:12:58 <les_w> I have some twenty year old parts that still work fine
21:13:03 <SWPadnos> or a flex cable connector - clamp it down, and you're done
21:13:06 <jacky^> jacky^ has joined #emc
21:13:16 <jacky^> jacky^ is now known as giacus_paltk
21:13:24 <les_w> we have to watch silver migration issues closely on boards
21:14:33 <les_w> in some extreme cases like the minn kota trolling motor control I actually used a slot in the board between elements
21:14:47 <les_w> stops migration issues for sure!
21:17:59 <les_w> also use the material in the GM int wiper control, ge flat pack light dimmer, and rockwell water meter
21:18:12 <les_w> so have some pretty good history on it
21:21:16 <SWPadnos> cool
21:21:24 <SWPadnos>  (worry - wife arrived home from work)
21:21:29 <SWPadnos> sorry, not worry ;)
21:21:54 <les_w> well....4:30 friday here...I say let the weekend begin
21:22:23 <SWPadnos> I agree, even though it's only 4:22 here ;)
21:22:32 <les_w> I'm gonna go turn off the phase converter
21:22:46 <SWPadnos> that sounds pretty final
21:23:16 <les_w> ok...keep my watch to 1 second...let's see...4:23:!%MARK
21:23:22 <les_w> OOPS
21:23:24 <les_w> HAHA
21:23:31 <SWPadnos> 4:23:30
21:23:46 <les_w> THAT WAS 4:22:15
21:23:47 <SWPadnos> we have atomic clocks in basically every room ;)
21:24:14 <les_w> I just set my watch to nist every few days
21:24:18 <SWPadnos> REALLY - IT DIDN'T LOOK IT TO ME!
21:24:22 <SWPadnos> heh
21:25:35 <les_w> how about smoke detectors
21:25:54 <SWPadnos> good idea
21:25:54 <les_w> what's in those things...americium or polonium?
21:26:05 <SWPadnos> dunno
21:26:56 <les_w> I think americium....alpha emitter. polonium is beta IIRC
21:30:05 <SWPadnos> heh - I never really studdied nukular chemistree
21:30:27 <SWPadnos> I could ask my mother though
21:30:30 <les_w> haha
21:30:56 <SWPadnos> it's nice having P-chem PHd s for parents
21:31:36 <fenn> hmmm..
21:31:38 <les_w> just looking at that new rooster....what colors...brilliant reds, snow white ear tufts, huge mettalic green tail
21:31:45 <les_w> show bird.
21:31:55 <SWPadnos> dammit - he'sa peacock ;)
21:32:01 <les_w> just about
21:32:33 <fenn> * fenn is getting aruacanas in a couple days
21:32:36 <les_w> I understand he is a rescued purebreed fighting cock
21:33:08 <les_w> what's an aruacana?
21:33:36 <les_w> I gotta take some pictures of this bird
21:33:53 <les_w> they are free-range...just out in the yard
21:33:54 <fenn> an easter egg chicken.. all the eggs are different colors, green, white, yellow, brown, gray
21:34:01 <les_w> oh neat
21:34:04 <fenn> and the chickens are all different colors too
21:34:32 <les_w> I should get some very nice chiks in a while
21:34:39 <fenn> sorry araucanas
21:34:43 <les_w> if a dog doesn't eat the rooster
21:35:35 <les_w> Usually those fighting cocks can take care of themselves
21:37:25 <les_w> But i know little about chickens...except they like to peck paul corner.
21:37:30 <dmessier> dmessier has joined #emc
21:37:43 <dmessier> hello all
21:38:22 <alex_joni> bonne soir
21:38:23 <dmessier> landing gear aint all its cracked up to be.... ITS MORE
21:38:31 <dmessier> soir??
21:38:53 <alex_joni> fenn: thought those are araucana not aruacana ?
21:38:58 <alex_joni> 23:42 < dmessier> soir??
21:39:01 <fenn> alex_joni: right
21:39:56 <alex_joni> and they're not really laying lots of colours
21:40:04 <alex_joni> but some blue-ish kind of eggs
21:40:14 <orpheus> orpheus has quit
21:40:32 <dmessier> chickens??
21:40:32 <alex_joni> otoh, they should be very yummy I heard
21:40:40 <alex_joni> easter chickens
21:41:06 <dmessier> name of the breed of bird pls??
21:41:23 <les_w> I may have new barnyard politics. Hen just followed the cat around....but now a rooster.
21:41:33 <les_w> I see rooster/cat issues.
21:41:35 <les_w> haha
21:41:53 <dmessier> me too.. some one's gonna get hurt
21:42:12 <dmessier> get it on video though
21:42:17 <les_w> well the spurs on the rooster are small
21:42:20 <les_w> right now
21:42:37 <dmessier> operant words .. "right now"
21:42:43 <les_w> haha
21:43:10 <les_w> they go for the eyes too
21:43:30 <dmessier> i had a ferret and a siemese male that were buddies
21:43:47 <les_w> ah...possible 6 inches of snow tonight here....fairly rare
21:44:22 <dmessier> with 2 parrokette's .... really...
21:44:36 <les_w> I believe it
21:44:47 <les_w> the cat and chicken slept together
21:45:10 <alex_joni> this is another classic: http://www.datadocktorn.nu/us_frag1.php
21:45:26 <dmessier> i have pictures of the cat and ferret where you cant tell where one ends and the other begins
21:45:51 <dmessier> there are just too many feet
21:46:06 <les_w> heh
21:46:22 <les_w> funny defrg alex
21:47:16 <les_w> ah...possible ice here too. No salt, no plows. Steep grades. Better check gas for the generator
21:49:36 <giacus_paltk> * giacus_paltk plaing a great guitar solo :P
21:50:30 <les_w> I restrung  some of the guitars last night
21:50:49 <les_w> also need strings for the sitar...have to order those though
21:51:38 <les_w> my playing is very rusty.
21:51:51 <giacus_paltk> :))
21:52:18 <ValarQ> alex_joni: nice url
21:55:02 <dmessier> kudos to DR. narton
21:56:28 <ValarQ> alex_joni: i have to counter with crunchly ;)
21:56:49 <alex_joni> crunchly?
21:56:53 <ValarQ> alex_joni: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/graphics/74-12-25.png
21:56:57 <dmessier> i picked up my sons guitar the other night and picke some wicked open chord stuff... we were BOTH surprised... 
21:57:17 <les_w> good?
21:57:43 <les_w> the more beers I have the better I get of course
21:58:19 <ValarQ> alex_joni: here is the first if you want to read them all: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/B/bells-and-whistles.html#crunchly73-05-28
21:58:20 <SWPadnos> beer goggles, meet beer headphones
21:58:42 <Jymmm> Jymmm has joined #emc
21:58:54 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Submakefile.skel): explain things a little bit
21:59:05 <dmessier> beer.... lower my expectations...
21:59:08 <Jymmm> les_w Forget to mention... Freud bits SUCK!
21:59:16 <les_w> I kind of did a major cleanup of some pretty old guitars....steelwooled and oiled the fingerboards....buffed up the body....etc
21:59:27 <SWPadnos> Jymmm, how about their saw blades?
21:59:32 <les_w> And I built these instruments
21:59:39 <Jymmm> SWPadnos no clue.
21:59:44 <dmessier> cool
22:00:06 <les_w> what happened? Freud is generally middle of the road...usually not the best but far from bad
22:00:15 <dmessier> hats off to the instument maker
22:00:36 <Jymmm> les_w chattered like crazy and the twist was very loose - compared to CMT
22:00:52 <les_w> I used to do that dmess. Guitar makers still come and use my cnc for pearl inlay though.
22:01:13 <dmessier> be the mntor you can be
22:01:18 <les_w> chatter?
22:01:20 <dmessier> mentor
22:01:29 <Jymmm> les_w SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH
22:01:35 <les_w> ah
22:01:42 <les_w> slipping in the collet?
22:01:44 <SWPadnos> wrong feed rate / SFM
22:02:02 <dmessier> smaller tool nose rad
22:02:14 <Jymmm> les_w Nope. but toss in the CMT bit.... nice and quiet.
22:02:19 <dmessier> lower doc
22:02:27 <les_w> My CMT bits perform well
22:02:47 <les_w> I have never used freud in the cnc
22:02:51 <Jymmm> les_w If I was to guess, I'd say not balanced.
22:02:54 <les_w> but have in manual routers
22:03:18 <les_w> hmm
22:03:27 <dmessier> i do damage control analysis
22:03:34 <les_w> balance would not screech
22:03:51 <les_w> not enough clearance angle would
22:04:18 <Jymmm> les_w Well, it didn't have much of a twist to it that's for sure.
22:04:18 <les_w> what kind of bit?
22:04:22 <dmessier> drop the rpm... leave the feedrates the same.. 10 % steps.... find where it works
22:04:26 <Jymmm> les_w 1/4" downcut
22:04:35 <les_w> cutting what?
22:04:44 <Jymmm> les_w ipe
22:04:49 <les_w> ok
22:05:04 <Jymmm> hell, even douglas fir
22:05:17 <Jymmm> but swap out for the CMT bit. nice.
22:05:51 <les_w> the Freud must be misground
22:05:57 <les_w> or dull
22:06:02 <les_w> or damaged
22:06:06 <dmessier> torque seems high enuf rigidity ssue... how long a protrusion from the spindle face
22:06:43 <les_w> dmess spiral downcuts have negative rake on the bottom
22:07:30 <dmessier> not so good for low rigidity machines
22:07:42 <dmessier> or setups...
22:07:44 <les_w> perhaps not
22:08:08 <les_w> I don't use them in hand routers
22:08:20 <les_w> and rigidity is not an issue in the cnc
22:09:06 <dmessier> in fin ops i like to keep tools short .. hold the part as best i can... and use high sheer & rake cutters.. screw tool life.. make god parts
22:10:29 <Jymmm> god parts?
22:10:40 <Jymmm> Palying Diety are we?
22:10:45 <Jymmm> Playing Diety are we?
22:10:47 <les_w> I use both up and downcut...but usually downcut for heavy work. It's stable. Won't suck the work up or the tool down.
22:11:34 <les_w> god likes high shear angles and rake, of course.
22:11:44 <Jymmm> lol
22:12:22 <anonimasu> haha
22:12:53 <dmessier> sorry.. its a good complex
22:13:00 <les_w> haha
22:13:23 <dmessier> i thought i was wrong once but i was mistaken..
22:14:21 <dmessier> cuttin IS a specialty of mine... i like chips
22:14:53 <dmessier> its the sound of money in the morning
22:16:14 <logger_aj> logger_aj has joined #emc
22:16:14 <zelazny.freenode.net> topic is: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home:www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller"
22:16:14 <zelazny.freenode.net> Users on #emc: logger_aj Jymmm dmessier giacus_paltk steve_stallings acemi lerman picnet jepler ValarQ bill2or3 CIA-8 SWPadnos zwisk LawrenceG les_w particles alex_joni A-L-P-H-A bill20r3 anonimasu fenn jtr_ @ChanServ ccjoe cradek robin 
22:16:26 <fenn> if you do climb milling, do you ever have to worry about wood splitting?
22:16:46 <dmessier> weve recently gotten involve in a research projec with McMaster University to investigate material abuse and compressive layer induced by machining
22:16:53 <les_w> with climb milling splitting is reduced dramatically
22:17:12 <les_w> but can't do it on a hand router safely
22:17:30 <dmessier> operant word.... safely
22:17:35 <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
22:17:38 <alex_joni> night all
22:17:53 <dmessier> bonne nuit
22:17:59 <dmessier> beau reve
22:18:06 <les_w> yeah climb stuf is for cnc routers only
22:18:27 <dmessier> this CNC stuff RULES
22:18:36 <fenn> what if you have a router table with a fence?
22:18:48 <fenn> and only do climb cutting on finish passes
22:18:50 <les_w> I wouldn't
22:18:55 <dmessier> climb on bord
22:19:06 <les_w> I climb mill on the shaper
22:19:20 <les_w> but it is an industrial unit with power feed
22:19:45 <dmessier> locking gibs??
22:20:14 <les_w> without power feed sooner or later it will grab something, take off, and suck you in
22:20:42 <dmessier> there is a climb mill and down mill lever??
22:20:52 <les_w> well it kicks forward rather than back
22:21:24 <les_w> fun one is slots...one side climb...the other not
22:21:45 <dmessier> i agree... but some double nut machines... lock against each other to climb mill
22:22:20 <les_w> well with any king of positive power feed it's perfectly safe
22:22:24 <les_w> phone
22:23:20 <dmessier> i like plunge roughing.... climb the last .025" efficiently... and rock &* roll
22:25:48 <dmessier> or ultra high efficiency feed mills... 0.12" feed per TOOTH
22:26:32 <fenn> in what, jello?
22:27:08 <dmessier> 400 rpm   4 flute...0.03" doc.... actual results....375 ipm feed... and data starvation ffrom the dnc
22:27:39 <fenn> wah .03" depth isnt much to brag about
22:27:47 <dmessier> 4140 heat treated to 45-49 Rc
22:28:26 <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): cleanups. use addprefix instead of patsubst when appropriate
22:28:59 <dmessier> no part ... just CHIPS... Canadian Machine Tool Sholw  2000
22:29:31 <dmessier> 375 ipm on a 12 inch extension.... I BRAG
22:29:49 <dmessier> 53 mm cutter
22:30:09 <fenn> that's 0.037" per tooth
22:30:38 <dmessier> i made 1 ton of chipe in 3 days...
22:30:40 <fenn> still 12" is pretty long
22:31:20 <dmessier> 50 HP machine... gantry..cat 50
22:31:39 <les_w> wow
22:31:45 <les_w> what's a chipe?
22:32:09 <dmessier> ppl would come by and ask... What are you makin'.... we'd  say chips
22:32:46 <dmessier> chips
22:32:46 <fenn> it's a type of bird, apparently
22:32:51 <les_w> I guess I wlll see some outrageous routing at IWF 2006
22:33:27 <les_w> cutting 3/4 MDF at 2000 ips etc
22:33:32 <dmessier> lok up hitatchi tool les... high feed milling
22:33:37 <dmessier> look
22:33:45 <les_w> k
22:33:56 <les_w> well I try as much as I can
22:34:36 <les_w> chips are money it's true
22:34:46 <les_w> make em fast
22:35:15 <dmessier> steel is now a HIGH commodity
22:35:34 <dmessier> turn it over if you can
22:35:55 <les_w> Looks like this year we are doing fewer but higher end turkey calls...so I have some machine time to sell
22:36:17 <les_w> We may do a run of some furniture item
22:36:29 <dmessier> high feed milling is desighnrd ti drive ALL the forces up the spindle
22:37:17 <les_w> well, my machine can push 2,200 lb....but I don't think the spindle would like it
22:37:20 <giacus_paltk> wow
22:37:25 <giacus_paltk> damn bass
22:37:26 <giacus_paltk> :P
22:37:47 <les_w> better bass in my music room!
22:37:51 <giacus_paltk> * giacus_paltk got a hit in the soul
22:37:51 <les_w> I promise
22:37:53 <giacus_paltk> hhahahaha
22:37:56 <giacus_paltk> :D
22:38:09 <dmessier> for wood.. i would tool up on pcd tools.. 1 of all your finishers... and forget it unlesss you screw up
22:39:10 <les_w> I  was going to try PCD...read some stuff and talked to some people and the consensus was micrograin carbide was more cost effective
22:39:33 <les_w> So I just set up diamond sharpening in the shop
22:39:44 <les_w> for the spiral carbide
22:40:01 <les_w> we can do about 5 before we lose the secondary bevel
22:40:25 <dmessier> you HAVE to knok its virgin wood.. no nails   & there is NO set up error allowed
22:40:48 <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:40:48 <CIA-8> * Use the module helper even when running in place. The remaining
22:40:48 <CIA-8> piece of the puzzle is to fix halcmd to not require setuid (by also
22:40:48 <CIA-8> making it call the module helper.) This will make the module helper
22:40:48 <CIA-8> the only setuid part of emc, which is the final goal.
22:40:48 <CIA-8> * make it so './configure; make; make install' will give a working
22:40:52 <CIA-8> system in /usr/local (using the module helper.) This is how every
22:42:51 <dmessier> prove outs carbide... find the clearance clarence....then R & R
22:43:11 <les_w> We would get about 3 hrs from a 1/2 spiral carbide with solids....but that was due to the emc TP
22:43:20 <les_w> it trashes tools pretty fast
22:43:41 <les_w> it's some better now
22:45:25 <dmessier> how much better??
22:45:27 <les_w> when feed slows down drastically at waypoints in g64 the resulting near zero chip lot gobbles up $60 bits fast
22:45:44 <les_w> twice as good with the tp mod
22:45:56 <les_w> we were talking about that today
22:46:27 <les_w> but there are side effects to the code mod...check the list
22:46:36 <dmessier> so it is in accel / decel...that she pucked??
22:47:17 <les_w> yeah. When we fixed the stopping at waypoints...it now can violate max accel
22:47:26 <dmessier> is it poaaibly overbuffering??
22:47:52 <les_w> basically a fix was coded in 2000 to address accel violations
22:47:55 <dmessier> possibaly
22:48:07 <les_w> but it trashed the whole contouring thing
22:48:31 <les_w> so we took out the "fix" last year
22:49:09 <les_w> contouring is now smooth, but it may accel more than the maximum value in the .ini
22:49:21 <les_w> for me, it's a no brainer
22:49:34 <les_w> let it violate the max accel
22:49:46 <les_w> if the path is now smooth
22:50:29 <dmessier> 6is there a kinematic file available... add kin vel limits to continue to monitor if your gonna throw the machine into next week
22:50:33 <les_w> I'ts not overbuffering...it's a math error.
22:50:47 <SWPadnos> you can't violate max_accel with stepgen, by design
22:50:55 <les_w> I see
22:50:57 <SWPadnos> that's why there's an error
22:51:11 <les_w> I am using servo emc1.
22:51:16 <SWPadnos> and I never saw it with the USC, since it can go so far above the ini max_accel
22:51:51 <SWPadnos> but stepgen has a hard physical limit on speed, and it also is coded to never exceed  the max
22:52:09 <SWPadnos> imagine what would happen with backlash compensation if that limit were ignored
22:52:20 <les_w> well we need to fix it for sure. In the near term I'll take the accel violations since my machine can do 0.5g in x, and several g in y and z
22:52:33 <dmessier> steppers are limited by the generator
22:52:49 <SWPadnos> sure - you can have people set the max_accel and max_vel limits in the ini to be well under the actual machine limits
22:53:00 <les_w> yeah
22:53:01 <SWPadnos> and then let the stepgen / pid / whatever go over that
22:53:08 <SWPadnos> but you need 2x to 3x headroom
22:53:27 <SWPadnos> I'm sure you'd rather not set the limits to 1/3 your machine's capabilities, just to account for a bad TP
22:53:37 <dmessier> overhwad aint cheap
22:53:44 <dmessier> overhead
22:53:46 <SWPadnos> which only shows up on high speed reversals, for the most part
22:53:58 <les_w> accel violations don't hurt me...but the nasty spike we had before burns up $60 cutters real fast
22:54:10 <dmessier> just wher all the comps come on too
22:54:17 <SWPadnos> (the offending code in 3d_chips is a g0z10 followed by a g0z-55)
22:54:28 <dmessier> backlash / gradient / 
22:54:30 <les_w> yeah
22:54:35 <SWPadnos> that's you, with your overdesigned machine, and servos
22:54:40 <les_w> got a 3x accel violation
22:54:43 <SWPadnos> not the average emc user ...
22:54:52 <les_w> right swp I am not typical
22:54:57 <SWPadnos> the best fix is to fix the TP
22:55:02 <les_w> yeah
22:55:19 <SWPadnos> or leave that OLD_CODE define out, and you'll get the new code with the overloads ;)
22:55:33 <SWPadnos> but smoother operation
22:56:06 <dmessier> from a read.. that dumpster diving 65 inches... DOWN.... unless you have 75" on Z... its NOT GOOD TO GO
22:56:16 <les_w> We tried so hard to do the fix that will intended...without trashing the tp
22:56:22 <les_w> but we could not
22:56:32 <SWPadnos> do you have a little time to discuss TP issues?
22:56:38 <les_w> yeah
22:56:52 <SWPadnos> ok - give me a few minutes to finish an email, and I'll get on that subject with you
22:56:57 <les_w> k
22:58:00 <les_w> I am going to check on my 98 yo grandma for a few minutes...we may get snowed in tonight
22:58:03 <les_w> back in a few
22:58:34 <dmessier> les... im not a coder ( these days) but i know systems... 
22:58:48 <dmessier> any help ... im in
22:59:49 <SWPadnos> part of the discussion will be "what's the best thing to do for blending"
22:59:57 <SWPadnos> so you can definitely help there, I think
23:01:04 <dmessier> what are the current tp/blend algorithms based on.... or are there any
23:03:13 <SWPadnos> I've been trying to figure that out ;)
23:05:01 <dmessier> average the last 3 points.... lookahead the next 3 pts put it the middle.. upon an acute condition... evealuated on poit to poin... mode.. "wae nned a sharp corner"
23:05:24 <SWPadnos> nope
23:05:30 <SWPadnos> that's not it ;)
23:05:39 <dmessier> can we incorporate b-splines>>
23:06:24 <dmessier> i'm playing the devils advocate
23:06:51 <dmessier> it COULD change the world...
23:07:19 <dmessier> knots & weights
23:09:59 <dmessier> vector & time
23:10:33 <SWPadnos> phone
23:11:05 <fenn> dmessier: it seems to be more like "whoever wants to write it, will you please write it already cause we know what we want it to do"
23:18:05 <les_w> back. Checked on my grandma and an employee. get snowed in in the mountains and you could starve or freeze.
23:19:12 <bill2or3> * bill2or3 won his stepper drivers, $50each
23:19:13 <bill2or3> yay
23:19:24 <les_w> cngrats
23:19:50 <bill2or3> that just leaves figuring out what I'm doing for rails/bearings
23:19:58 <les_w> abba!
23:20:24 <bill2or3> abba?
23:20:40 <les_w> low cost high precision linear rails
23:20:54 <les_w> google...
23:20:59 <bill2or3> your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
23:21:10 <les_w> haha
23:21:19 <les_w> well, I design machines.
23:21:58 <fenn> dont listen to him, he just talks on the phone/irc all day
23:22:20 <les_w> newsletter....you know, that's a damn good idea
23:22:40 <les_w> yeah I get paid for talking on the phone like teenage girls.
23:22:58 <fenn> we call that "spam" in more enlightened parts of the world
23:23:13 <les_w> heh...yeah
23:23:32 <bill2or3> who actually has a price list for abba rails?
23:23:44 <les_w> well people welcome advertising if it has useful content
23:23:53 <les_w> I have some quotes.
23:24:07 <les_w> about $100/meter for 20 mm
23:24:16 <les_w> trucks are about $50
23:24:21 <fenn> i would pay money for a service that gave me the actual prices of various vendors..
23:24:22 <bill2or3> we have like 15+ mail servers here because of what all the advertisers consider "useful"
23:24:23 <les_w> good deal
23:24:30 <bill2or3> hmm
23:24:32 <les_w> unless you get luvky on ebay
23:24:48 <bill2or3> "truck" is the bearing-part that slides on the rail?
23:24:57 <les_w> yeah
23:25:05 <bill2or3> and I need *8* of those.
23:25:06 <bill2or3> ouch
23:25:26 <les_w> well, it's about one third to one half the price of most...
23:25:52 <fenn> stop! drawerslide! woo oo oo oo ooh oh ooh oh
23:25:53 <bill2or3> what do you think about fixedxy spindle on a gantry over an X-Y table, compared to a moving-X spindle over a "y table" ?
23:26:00 <bill2or3> I haven't decided which to do yet.
23:26:18 <les_w> it's as good as I can get for new stuff
23:26:29 <bill2or3> you do need 2 trucks per rail right?
23:26:44 <bill2or3> they're not so wide that you can use one-per...?
23:26:47 <les_w> moving gantry has advantages...but costs much more
23:26:59 <fenn> what are the advantages of a moving gantry?
23:27:06 <les_w> 2 trucks per rail yes
23:27:07 <bill2or3> seems like it'd be a lot harder to keep rigid
23:27:12 <fenn> less mass to sling around?
23:27:17 <bill2or3> moving gantry machine is narrower, too.
23:27:48 <les_w> yeah....moving mass does not change with work....so servos can be tuned much tighter
23:27:55 <fenn> * fenn is stuck in "make it as rigid as possible" mode
23:28:09 <les_w> that's a good mode to be in
23:28:14 <bill2or3> yeah, I probablly will use a fixed gantry
23:28:44 <les_w> unless it is a big machine fixed gantry is the way to go
23:29:37 <bill2or3> it's gonna be small, 18" x 24" I think.
23:29:51 <bill2or3> maybe 4-5" of Z travel
23:30:11 <SWPadnos> phone still
23:30:32 <SWPadnos> it's my mother - I'm asking her about this problem
23:31:26 <les_w> np
23:34:06 <les_w> basically in machine tools maximize SQRT (stiffness/mass)
23:34:49 <les_w> BTW as a bulk property that ratio is just about identical for aluminm and steel
23:35:01 <les_w> steel is cheaper though.
23:35:18 <fenn> steel has better damping
23:35:24 <Jymmm> I have some (actual dimension) 1" x 5.5" I'd like to glue up, but dont have a jointer/planer, am I screwed ?
23:35:57 <fenn> jymmm just face mill it :)
23:36:36 <Jymmm> fenn ....and 10 hours later....
23:36:39 <Jymmm> lol
23:36:57 <Jymmm> 240 sq inches.... yuck
23:37:40 <Jymmm> I've never glued up anything, so nfc.
23:38:05 <Jymmm> anything I should watch out for?
23:39:10 <fenn> use lots of clamps
23:39:16 <les_w> phone
23:39:16 <fenn> and lots of glue
23:39:37 <Jymmm> I have soem gorilla glue
23:39:57 <fenn> that will foam and expand to fill cracks.. fyi
23:40:09 <Jymmm> is that a good or bad thing?
23:40:20 <fenn> probably a good thing
23:40:48 <Jymmm> This wood is pretty fiberous if that makes a difference
23:41:05 <Jymmm> Mangaris
23:41:10 <fenn> http://www.woodworking.com/ww101glue.cfm
23:41:47 <SWPadnos> ok - I'm back now
23:41:50 <SWPadnos> phew
23:44:42 <fenn> btw jymmm gorilla glue is cyanoacrylate and gives off toxic fumes when burned..
23:44:51 <fenn> er, crap not cyanoacrylate
23:45:07 <fenn> its polyurethane but gives off cyanide when burned
23:45:29 <fenn> not enough to kill you but..
23:46:24 <Jymmm> I hear ya... but hopefully what I make isn't going to be burned either =)
23:46:32 <SWPadnos> hmmm - it looks like there's an uninitialized variable in that OLD_CODE
23:48:27 <SWPadnos> maybe not
23:52:12 <les_w> ahhh skype to mexico...goverment messes with it I am told...lost connection
23:53:37 <les_w> anyway glue...titebond III or gorilla
23:53:49 <giacus_paltk> giacus_paltk has quit
23:54:00 <les_w> gorilla might not be good for you...it is moisture cure and you are in a desert
23:54:18 <fenn> you can spray water on the wood before applying the glue
23:54:21 <Jymmm> les_w Californai isn't a desert yet =)
23:54:31 <les_w> some parts
23:54:41 <les_w> yeah fenn spray water
23:54:53 <les_w> and what variable is not initialized?
23:56:01 <les_w> I glue up panels with titebond II...they have stood up to several years outdoors np
23:56:38 <SWPadnos> well - the velCart variable is initialized to 0, then gets added to each time through the loop, which makes no sense to me
23:56:55 <SWPadnos> it's done after it's used though, so it looked wrong at first
23:57:18 <les_w> oh
23:57:59 <les_w> so it's an integration?
23:58:20 <SWPadnos> what doesn't make sense to me is why this calculation is done for the entire tpRunQueue every time
23:58:43 <SWPadnos> I do like the comment at the beginning of the function though:
23:58:56 <SWPadnos>  /* what the hell does this do?  It is one of the key functions in
23:58:57 <SWPadnos>    the whole planner, and it doesn't have any overall comments :-(
23:58:59 <SWPadnos> */
23:59:03 <les_w> haha
23:59:26 <giacus> giacus has joined #emc
23:59:57 <les_w> well myself, paul , jon E., Dave, Alex, jmk could not figure it out.