00:19:00 rayh has joined #emc 00:25:00 rayh_ has joined #emc 00:25:09 Ephexis has quit 00:26:44 rayh_ has quit 00:27:09 rayh has quit 00:27:54 *_* 00:39:09 G night 00:39:23 rayh has joined #emc 00:39:25 Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk 00:45:31 rayh has quit 00:46:10 rayh has joined #emc 01:15:54 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: This was unnecessarily dangerous. 01:19:33 rayh_ has joined #emc 01:20:56 Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole 01:21:16 LawrenceG has quit 01:22:03 MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm 01:23:43 LawrenceG has joined #emc 01:30:35 rayh_ has quit 01:42:48 roltek has joined #emc 01:43:36 roltek has quit 02:12:20 rayh has quit 02:30:23 Jymmm has quit 04:01:26 Jymmm has joined #emc 08:29:05 Jymmm has quit 08:45:08 fenn has quit 08:45:41 fenn has joined #emc 10:08:46 anonimasu has quit 10:11:48 anonimasu has joined #emc 10:32:37 A-L-P-H-A has quit 11:04:11 Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^ 11:04:28 morning 11:20:24 A-L-P-H-A has joined #emc 11:50:41 acemi has joined #emc 13:00:26 holaaa 13:00:42 all sleeping here around ? :P 13:03:46 I've a news for all you.. 13:05:40 Jacky^ is going to leave EMC :(°° 13:05:51 forever. 13:07:43 Jacky^ want to thank you and he's going to leave the channel 13:09:17 It was a pleasure to talk to you :(° 13:19:14 sigh 13:20:24 after 9 months its hard to leave .. 13:22:00 I was in love with EMC 13:22:07 but I must go :( 13:30:15 Jacky^: http://www.aegisiraq.co.uk/images/So Long, Farewell.wma 13:30:44 fenn: ..sigh ! goodbay 13:31:26 my friend 13:32:07 this channel sure will be dead without you 13:32:17 I know .. 13:32:28 I've no choice :(°° 13:32:46 have to get a job? girlfriend jealous? 13:32:56 too many cats? 13:33:45 I got tired, I've not so much time to go on here :( 13:34:01 too many things to do 13:34:38 too few time :/ 13:35:42 anyway, remember, Jacky^ was a good guy, he's loved you :P 13:39:50 les_w: still there ? 13:45:18 alex_joni: are you ? 13:46:27 mmmhh ok, later. 13:46:36 Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk 14:09:49 Jymmm has joined #emc 14:11:36 Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^ 14:11:44 Hi Jymmm ! 14:12:11 hi 14:12:21 goodbay my friend .. 14:12:29 me is leaving the channel 14:12:37 * Jacky^ is leaving the channel 14:12:39 bu-bye! 14:12:40 :( 14:13:22 what bu- mean ? :/ 14:13:37 Jacky^: You have to say it out loud 14:13:55 like bye-bye, but with an accent 14:14:08 oh .. first time I heard 14:14:11 nice :) 14:14:20 =) 14:14:28 btw, thanks, you teach me a lot of new words :P 14:14:37 but I must go now .. :(° 14:14:45 bu-bye! 14:14:56 bu-bye :) 14:15:59 I would wait to bu-bye other peoples.. but it seem they're not around ! 14:16:07 lol 14:16:13 :D 14:25:47 goobye my friends. goodbye les_w paelscrit CIA-17 websys ValarQ acemi SWPadnos robin LawrenceG steves_logging ChanServ bill20r3 logger_aj djb_rh A-L-P-H-A ccjoe cradek picnet alex_joni jtr_ anonimasu Jacky^ jepler lerman bill2or3 fenn 14:25:59 :(°°° 14:26:10 bu-bye all 14:26:25 * Jacky^ sigh ! 14:27:15 some of those blokes havent said anything in months! 14:27:26 jacky you can always just become a lurker 14:28:15 mmm.. its sad 14:28:47 but I must DO IT 14:28:52 sorry .. 14:29:05 now leaving .. 14:29:09 bye ! 14:29:14 -3 14:29:15 -2 14:29:18 -1 14:29:22 Jacky^ has quit 14:31:50 giacus has joined #emc 14:32:07 hi all ! 14:32:21 is this the Enhanced Machine Control channel ? 14:32:25 :P 14:33:23 giacus: yes 14:33:34 hi jepler , nice to meet you :D 14:34:00 likewise 14:34:12 :-) 14:36:40 * giacus wonder what k4ts will do this evening looking for Jacky^ .. 14:36:44 haha 14:37:06 umm, who's that" 14:37:08 ? 14:37:24 who ? Jacky^ ? 14:37:40 never seen .. 14:41:34 he's a bastard anyway! 14:41:45 I agree 14:41:48 :D 14:45:22 good riddance 14:45:35 no doubt 14:45:55 fenn Since Jacky is gone, we can move in on his girlfriend! 14:46:31 um, yeah, from like 8,000 miles away 14:46:45 fenn I hear she likes California 14:46:47 Jacky^ has joined #emc 14:46:55 anyone calls me ? 14:47:00 :D 14:47:06 Jacky^ has quit 14:54:45 Jymmm: there are a lot of beautiful girls there around ! 14:54:57 dman it .. and I'm here .. :((( 14:55:22 morning all 14:55:25 you've the best girls of the planet there ! :P 14:55:26 hi les 14:55:37 morning les_w 14:55:42 where you from ? 14:55:45 :D 14:55:53 morning giacus 14:55:55 giacus/Jacky^: your game isn't very funny 14:55:56 georgia usa 14:56:04 oh.. nice 14:56:31 les_w: what about nice girls there ? 14:56:59 I think I need a soft start in new servo supply for the machine 14:57:03 here, 40% are nice :) 14:57:08 the girls here have no teeth. 14:57:14 haha 14:57:15 haha 14:57:42 I am wondering about just throwing 3kw supply across the line 14:57:43 cradek: right too 14:57:56 plus the VFD 14:58:00 fuse popper 14:58:52 mmhh.. take care 14:59:02 yes jacky 14:59:05 haha 14:59:09 :) 14:59:26 Jacky was nice for me as nick 14:59:46 but .. someone tell me its a woman name :( 15:00:09 infact, it is .. 15:00:31 dunno how giacus sound in english 15:00:39 but it should be much better 15:00:39 jacky could be either 15:00:43 :) 15:00:46 heh 15:00:51 the very male equivalent is "jack" 15:00:54 girl's names like that usually end in I, like jacki 15:00:58 yeah 15:01:21 I kknow jackie maybe its right for a male 15:01:39 bbtw, thins new nick should be ok 15:01:40 jackie is more likely female than jacky 15:01:50 The toothless girls here are named sally mae or tammy. 15:01:55 whats wrong with "giacomo"? 15:02:01 yeah 15:02:05 les_w: scarlet? 15:02:07 giacomo cusato 15:02:11 well, actually they have teeth up to about age 18 15:02:12 name surname 15:02:34 My last wife was a scarlet type for sure 15:02:53 nice looking 15:02:56 crazy 15:02:59 had teeth 15:02:59 :) 15:03:54 The day we had divorce we went car shopping after 15:04:09 and she bought a $40,000 pickup truck. 15:04:31 "king ranch" 4x4 15:05:25 I have a similar truck but without all the fancy stuff 15:05:36 very bad ride and handling 15:05:41 well at least she got your money's worth 15:05:41 but hey it's a truck 15:05:59 oh it was her money 15:06:01 haha 15:06:10 :D 15:06:34 I still have to buy a car but don't want to 15:06:34 ..yes, its hard to be married here, too 15:06:50 ITW is bugging me about getting up there for a while 15:07:23 live in hotel a couple weeks I guess 15:07:55 change your name to "nikola" 15:08:04 haha 15:08:15 well will be doing ultrasonics 15:08:23 but will visit gema 15:08:35 they are the nikola guys 15:08:40 tesla was way into all kinds of resonant phenomenon 15:08:46 you know, invented powder coating 15:10:04 hmm must google power supply soft start... 15:10:45 big resistor, little resistor, transistor.. 15:11:16 requires mucking around inside the vfd though 15:12:03 I read in today's news italian is coming to be appreciated in US school 15:12:29 nice news, we're going to be popoular as spanish 15:12:31 this should do... 15:12:39 http://sound.westhost.com/project39.htm 15:12:48 the great issue of internet is the language 15:12:51 better than triacs I think 15:13:10 I hope 15-20 years yet and we'll get a universal language 15:13:20 spanish is almost a second language here now 15:13:27 I know 15:13:35 latin... 15:13:36 haha 15:13:45 aramaic ? 15:13:47 :D 15:13:50 hehe 15:13:51 heh 15:13:54 esperanto? 15:13:59 :P 15:14:02 it was tried... 15:14:14 I know, I was kidding 15:14:29 hmmm yeah just a voltage relay.... 15:14:39 English (or whatever this is called that we see on the internet) is surely going to be it 15:14:44 I did that in the rotary converter 15:14:57 usually autside countries know only 3 things about italy: pizza mafia mandolino 15:15:04 outside 15:15:19 I know more...I red the books you sent 15:15:22 maybe we're going right now.. 15:15:24 read 15:15:28 :) 15:15:53 skunkworks has joined #emc 15:15:57 les_w: yeah, you learn more about naples 15:16:03 well off to the shop for me...things getting busy again 15:16:37 italy isnt too small :( 15:17:09 I'm 37 years old , I not know many places of ite yet ! 15:17:29 there's no enough time :(( 15:18:05 in the US I just seen Detroit, L.A ans few other place 15:18:14 in 20 days 15:18:23 live is so short 15:18:27 life 15:18:55 we need a personal plane :P 15:20:26 Jymmm: you should able to drive a plane 15:20:29 be 15:21:02 les is the pilot 15:21:06 If les_w teach you , you could teach me 15:21:10 :) 15:21:25 hehe, I know 15:24:19 I was 19 years old when I leaved the school :( 15:24:25 I choosed to work 15:24:37 it wasnt right .. 15:25:07 now, tryng to get it back 15:25:51 I went to school 2 years, worked 4, then went back to school for 3 15:26:59 after I understood, the best teasure a man can have is the KNOWLEDGE 15:27:02 :( 15:27:39 well, I went to school mainly because it was fun. 15:27:54 I almost stayed 15:28:04 they offered a position 15:29:02 But I made much more money in industry. 15:29:39 actually here its hard, also for guys from university 15:30:02 hello 15:30:05 to find a place to work 15:30:08 hey alex_joni 15:30:11 hi alex 15:31:07 university school here its just a good start point 15:31:13 It was hard here the last few years but now there seems to be a shortage of engineers and scientists 15:31:41 2001 was a bad time to start a business 15:32:33 now isnt better .. at least here 15:33:31 we're waitig for political elections in april 206 15:33:45 its the lates hope 15:35:01 any family here have any son with 3 cell phone, and a car WITHOUT working .. 15:35:14 it can be so for a long time .. 15:36:09 we're going to get peoples having debits before born 15:36:13 damn it 15:36:15 :D 15:39:34 so, Euro is stron on Dollar, but its based on debits .. 15:39:39 its only paper 15:41:19 I'de like to rewind time and came back in 60's 70's years 15:44:55 here things are better...at least for me 15:45:07 good 15:45:14 I got lucky with latest invention I think 15:45:32 I hope weel for me too in the next future :P 15:45:36 well 15:45:55 I thought the contract would just end after one month with me writing a report that the request was not practical 15:45:56 individual business are ok 15:46:11 individual* 15:46:15 but then I came up with something 15:46:43 looking in general the prospective is bad 15:47:16 Well I am just trying to save most of the money for later bad times 15:47:27 exept for a car. 15:47:36 i appreciated bush sayng he's looking for alternative energy .. 15:47:37 except 15:47:39 hey - I started my business in 2001 15:47:47 Bush is a shithead 15:47:51 can I say that on IRC? 15:47:54 did you have a rough start swp? 15:48:01 um - well, sort of ;) 15:48:16 years 1 and 2 were great, 3 was a problem, now we're back up to speed 15:48:36 he wait years to understand it ? :( 15:48:48 I gave the tool works one year notice that I wanted to resign and start my own company 15:49:10 heh 15:49:29 I was asked to do something which I wasn't interested in, so I said "nope - in fact, I think I'll be leaving now" 15:49:40 But I stayed on a bit longer because I had a NVH problem to fix in the ford taurus/sable platform 15:49:46 gave 2 weeks notice, that was about it 15:49:52 to be honest I think alex_joni have the best luck to start a business from there .. 15:50:18 I had no problems at ITW, I just thought it was time to have my own company. 15:50:24 always looking with an eye to the china .. 15:50:45 china is overrated. regular ceramic is fine 15:50:46 They asked if I would keep doing some projects for them 15:51:03 sam happened with me, since I was the (only) software guy 15:51:06 same 15:51:16 Many thought I was absolutely nuts...because I had (have) a fellowship. 15:51:25 That's a job for life... 15:51:36 I ended up doing a couple of projects for my old company, plus I got the 3 or 4 other customers they couldn't serve any more 15:51:58 who unfortunately all stopped wanting engineering services at the smae time 15:52:27 Most of my work is with the old company, but I need to diversify 15:52:39 mmh 15:52:42 but with 700 divisions....I keep busy 15:52:49 that's is a mistake 15:53:23 I do need to have work from other places 15:53:38 btw, the most important thing is to believe in the progress 15:53:45 I want to believe in it 15:53:52 In my upcoming trip I will visit many companies 15:53:59 but all owned by ITW. 15:54:47 dunno 15:55:24 I think a company can have 1 owner or 100000 owners 15:55:32 but not 5 or 10 15:55:39 SWP are all your jobs software? 15:55:42 3 is a bad number 15:55:48 nope - I do some hardware as well 15:56:13 I'm kind of in the process of designing an HD camera for network / array use 15:56:27 mine are all optics or acoustics work 15:56:32 always sensors 15:57:08 I'm usually doing controls, or small embedded things (like the back massagers in business class in the 777) 15:57:36 oh yeah...you also worked on the 777 15:57:46 boeing is mean mean mean 15:58:00 sort of - just cabin stuff, for a sub-sub-sub-sub-contractor 15:58:28 recall I did the annunciators. 15:58:33 ah yes 15:58:37 First LED ones. 15:59:09 funny - you'd think they (the aerospace industry) would have latched on to LEDs as soon as they were invented 15:59:24 higher efficiency, cooler, and last longer than incandescent 15:59:34 It wasn't easy with the early hi brightess leds 15:59:35 plus lighter 15:59:54 I imagine that "spreading" the beam was the biggest issue 16:00:00 I had to really pull some optical tricks 16:00:21 Oh there were strigent specs for off axis brightness 16:01:11 did you need to redesign the LED packages themselves, or just the housing around them? 16:01:22 The thing ended up looking like tiny newtonian telescope optics 16:01:41 yeah custom packages 16:01:57 early HP heterojuction chips 16:02:06 junction 16:02:08 heh 16:02:39 green was really hard then 16:03:21 hi-brite green are still just as expensive as blue 16:03:51 I had to use multiple chips 16:04:05 cost was not much of an issue as you might expect 16:04:29 not in aerospace, but I know the people buying from my customer were real pricks 16:04:39 maybe that's why my people went out of business 16:04:59 I usually did not do aerospace stuff 16:05:19 car and oem industrial mostly 16:06:42 I think I have a job coming up making a good ir detector for hot melt glue 16:06:51 but for a dollar or two 16:06:53 heh -cool 16:06:56 or warm 16:07:08 cost, not sale? 16:07:42 D* stuff. Detectors are easy. Really low cost ones are not. 16:08:06 especially at 7 microns or so 16:08:33 so stuff like silicon is out. 16:09:00 is this a remote hot glue sensing app, or something to control the temp of the gun? 16:09:17 remote sensing 16:09:57 7 microns? is that a wavelength? 16:10:01 all very simple stuff, just a cost issue 16:10:07 yes a wavelength 16:12:46 It's kind of like design issues for the little green thing on car batteries 16:12:56 you know, to check the charge? 16:13:17 That's one of ours. 16:13:29 the electrolyte thing? 16:13:47 But the patents have run out so I had to design something new. 16:14:04 It's a little plastic ball and a lightpipe 16:15:05 So I had to design an electronic one. 16:15:21 but still as cheap as the ball/lightpipe 16:15:41 later guys 16:15:49 giacus is now known as giacus_afk 16:15:54 later giacus 16:16:46 I always thought the green indicator was one of the slickest inventions.... 16:17:16 We sort the balls in vats of sugar water 16:17:33 what are they made of? 16:17:47 a copolymer.... 16:18:03 "secret sauce" 16:18:04 hey come on now.. patents are up :P 16:18:19 the lightpipe is SAN 16:18:19 you probably dont know huh 16:19:03 that won't work haha 16:19:11 it's not in the patent 16:19:51 so now you just measure the conductivity of the electrolyte? 16:20:21 no I do it optically 16:20:39 but in a different way 16:20:45 you'll see it soon 16:21:17 nah i'm too cheap to buy a new battery.. stuff breaks and then it sits there 16:21:48 Well the charge monitor has only one use....warranty 16:22:03 dealers charge dead batteries back to the car maker 16:22:17 charge as in money 16:23:25 03cradek * 10emc2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): move tkemc resources to the right place, move docs to the right place 16:23:32 At the auto show I set up a booth where I measured the alcohol content of drinks 16:23:40 with a little plastic thing 16:23:46 hooked to a laptop 16:24:11 that's not such a big deal... 16:24:21 the big deal is that it costs a buck. 16:26:26 bill2or3 has quit 16:54:52 skunkworks has quit 17:19:44 bwah. 17:25:12 looking for a deal with big toroid transformers 17:25:29 seems none are bigger than 1.5 kva 17:26:18 I'm looking for ideas for cheap linear rails. 17:26:24 hate to start sticking secondaries in series 17:26:24 for my ghetto-mill 17:26:41 how ghetto? 17:26:43 haha 17:27:35 cheap is relative, but hiwin or similar is hard to beat 17:28:13 hundred bucks per meter, $50 trucks 17:28:41 pretty ghetto, I want to keep it under $500. 17:28:44 here's some options: skate bearing on gas pipe, drawer slide, centerless ground rod and precision bearing blocks.. 17:28:53 mostly just to learn, I'll do a better one later. 17:29:12 I forgot...a router right? 17:29:18 my current thinking is threaded rod and derlin nuts. 17:29:35 ah yes derlin....very popular. 17:29:41 haha 17:29:42 get acme threaded rod.. it's almost as cheap 17:30:11 worth the extra $2 any day 17:30:14 what does the 'acme' designale? a type or a brand or what? 17:30:19 a thread form 17:30:21 yeah msc has knook acme very cheap 17:30:23 'designate' 17:30:30 the pressure angle is 29 degrees versus the standard 60 degrees 17:30:37 so you get less "wedging" force 17:30:41 ahh, so less friction 17:31:00 usually they are more precise too, just because of whatever 17:31:02 I see, easier to turn. 17:31:24 is it usually a special-order item, or should I be able to find it locally? 17:31:32 more of a catalog order 17:31:42 it would probably cost a lot more locally 17:31:54 ahh, ok. 17:32:10 enco or mcmaster or some such 17:32:47 yeah, I was browsing enco last night. 17:33:03 I opened the catalog for you...acme precision stuff is about $15 for 3 feet, depending 17:33:15 what size? 17:33:28 this is what i'm gonna be using http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=408-0220&PMPXNO=942694 17:34:16 its quite amazing how long it takes me to finish a project 17:34:21 that's within budget. 17:34:21 ach IE is frozen up 17:34:34 I could get 3 pieces, cut some off the Z to make a tap.. 17:35:01 that might be a little skinny at 6 feet... 17:35:10 probably 3 feet max 17:35:31 too much whipping will kill the nuts and bearings and accuracy 17:35:59 I'm thinking I'll want about 10-12" of XY travel. 17:36:07 not too big. 17:36:15 ok i thought you meant like 4-5 feet 17:36:31 nah, I want to keep it under 2feet square, I dont have a ton of room. 17:36:35 ok 17:36:36 and I mostly want to make small stuff. 17:36:47 5/8-5 would be about right 17:36:57 actually, I think I mostly want to make a mill, since I have no solid idea of what I want to use it for yet. 17:37:04 :-) 17:37:11 have you read the gingery series? 17:37:18 I haven't, what is that? 17:37:27 teaches you how to make a machine shop from scrap 17:37:45 * bill20r3 googles. 17:38:05 i built the lathe.. probably would work better if you started with the shaper 17:38:23 it's worthwhile reading? 17:38:41 I get about 30 bucks for 5/8-5 6 feet .0009 lead ac. 17:38:43 hmm.. i learned a lot building the lathe.. 17:38:49 55 for .003 17:38:52 knowing how to cast stuff is pretty powerful 17:39:20 he teaches a lot of really basic stuff that you cant just look up 17:39:48 well, now that we have the internet its a lot easier to look this kind of stuff up 17:39:58 but most people wouldnt admit they dont know how 17:40:18 like how to drill a hole for instance 17:40:23 I dont know a lot. 17:40:25 heh 17:40:44 they have the gingery milling machine book on amazon for $9.95 17:40:47 * bill20r3 orders 17:41:04 fenn, how did your homebuilt lathe turn out? 17:41:15 better than no lathe, that's for sure 17:41:22 you really need to get the whole series 17:41:28 dont get it from amazon 17:41:33 go to lindsaybks.com 17:41:43 they had it at my library 17:42:49 well, the drill press book kinda sucks 17:43:12 I have amazon-prime, so I get free shipping. 17:43:43 do you have any power tools already? 17:44:23 mini lathe, micro mill... 17:44:32 most common hand tools. 17:44:41 ah building a mill should be easy then :) 17:44:55 yeah, I'm not ill-equiped, except for the knowledge part. 17:45:32 I was planning to convert the micromill, but I dont want to disable it for manuall operation 17:46:11 have you taken any classes? 17:46:20 like machine shop 101 or whatever 17:46:28 I haven't. 17:46:41 I looked, but the locak school district didn't really have anything available. 17:46:54 well there was this really neat "how to use manual machine tools" page but it went down 17:47:03 so i put up an archive i had of it 17:47:34 http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/~chrish/techindx.htm 17:47:47 I have "Home Machinists Handbook" on the way, too. 17:48:01 I think you could eek in a 12x12 x4 xyz with linear ball rails for about 500 17:48:09 excluding tronics and stuff 17:48:19 *cough* you mean the expensive parts.. 17:48:24 yeah 17:48:44 I have motors allready. 17:48:51 good 17:49:06 its just the drivers/rails that are gonna cost me. 17:49:16 so moving table....let's see 17:49:18 * giacus_afk play Carradine, Keith - I'm Easy.mp3 17:49:27 a little overhang 17:49:55 I was thinking of the table on one axis, and a gantry with the spindle on the other axis 17:49:56 I get about $250 for rails 17:50:00 oops trucks 17:50:02 giacus_afk is now known as giacus 17:50:06 that kills it for you 17:50:12 50 each 17:50:13 but I dont really have any good reason for planing it that way. 17:50:59 gantries usually cost more 17:51:25 sed_ has joined #EMC 17:51:26 http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/030303.html <- like this? 17:51:39 yeah we have about 600 for x and y using linear rail/4140 acme 17:52:00 you mean compared to having the X and Y movement in the table? 17:52:04 * fenn likes that design for some reason 17:53:26 most gantry router designs look like they're gonna flop all over the place - and they do! 17:53:36 ahh. 17:53:51 so the alternative is to have a solid spindle mount, and XY the table? 17:53:58 dual screws and very stiff construction is required 17:54:10 is it still called a 'gantry' if it's fixed? (except for the Z) 17:54:12 for gantries 17:54:20 i think the vertical column construction is worse than the gantry style as far as rigidity 17:54:47 can be 17:55:05 like a micromill for instance.. yeesh 17:55:23 but do go fixed z moving table for sure 17:55:26 I've seen designs where the gantry slides over the table, and some where the table slides under the gantry. 17:55:29 much easier for you 17:55:41 seems like having the table move would be tighter. 17:55:44 les what do you think of the design in the link i posted? 17:55:56 since you're not schlepping around this top-heavy assembly 17:56:02 the monoblock? 17:56:07 seems good 17:59:43 what about motorizing a cheap pre-made XY table? 17:59:51 or are the tollerances too loose on those? 18:00:54 why not just motorize your mini mill? 18:01:01 its practically the same thing 18:02:04 because I need a mill to do it with. :-) 18:02:18 uh, but you've got a mill right there.. 18:02:25 no good reason, really. 18:02:56 all the mill-conversion pages make it look like it's some super-precision job, and I'm kind of afraid of screwing it up. 18:03:03 bah 18:03:14 i can do it in 2 hours 18:03:20 have you done it? 18:03:28 drill some wood, clamp some hose clamps - kablam 18:03:44 i have the most ghetto cnc mill ever 18:04:19 got pics? 18:06:00 http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0327.JPG 18:06:10 http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0329.JPG 18:07:02 i could take more but i'm embarrassed 18:07:53 :-) 18:08:28 fenn: great 18:08:33 are those drawer slides? 18:08:59 on pipes? 18:09:02 the simplest way to get a thing its always the best 18:09:11 GD&T is lame 18:09:48 those are rollerblade bearings on gas pipe 18:09:53 fenn, what're you making with it, besides example-penguins? 18:10:06 well, nothing really, because there's no free cam software 18:10:16 :-( 18:10:22 yeah, there is that. 18:11:01 i was screwing around with (jepler's ?) img to gcode program, but it doesnt do tool compensation so not very useful 18:11:27 i know how to make a better one, i should just do it 18:11:33 we are buying a 5k version of MasterCam 18:11:56 neat ABC table. http://tinyurl.com/bad32 18:12:08 sed_: why doesn't your "engineer" know how to do normal shop drawings? 18:12:18 gd&t is like metrology or inspection type stuff 18:12:37 cuz she came from Areospace... 18:12:42 or outerspace... whichever 18:13:09 as far as I can tell there are not many machine shops out there that practice GD&T 18:13:46 it seems like a good idea if everyone is on board, but to learn new shit just to make simple parts is kind of retarded 18:14:09 IBM tried to push UML on pleople back in 95... it didnt work for the same reason 18:14:47 IBM fuck 18:14:59 * fenn cackles 18:15:17 bill20r3 is now known as bill2or3 18:15:42 They dont want me to learn G-Code, (cuz she dosent) because MasterCam will write it all for me.... 18:15:43 Ibm are blank collars 18:15:48 nor hackers 18:15:50 not 18:16:26 white* 18:16:42 white collars arent hackers 18:17:07 bill20r3 you work in optics?? 18:17:09 ibm sucks 18:17:29 ibm sucks, but no one ever got fired for recomending IBM 18:17:53 and they use Linux... so not all that bad 18:18:06 not at all 18:18:25 depend on waht you mean as 'Linux' 18:18:50 I come from the Unix world, I could go on and on about what I meand as 'Linux' 18:19:18 no sed, I work for an ISP, my interest in cnc is just hobbiest. 18:19:35 its funney how Linux/Beowolf took over IBM 18:19:43 Linus is a looser 18:19:49 heh 18:19:51 sed_: who is having a say in what you are allowed to learn anyway? 18:19:54 keep in mind 18:19:57 :) 18:20:01 bill2or3 what do you do for the isp? 18:20:06 sysadmin.. 18:20:33 i must've been a sysadmin in a previous life 18:21:06 did yo udo something bad in the life before that? 18:21:45 well before that i was a pointy-haired-boss :) 18:21:53 fenn the new "Engineer" we hired, she used to be a CNC machinist, but she never wrote G-code, dosent understand AutoCad. and suggested we buy a 21" lathe for making small parts.... 18:22:18 sed, so she just clicks the "start" button a lot? 18:22:30 yea 18:22:39 damn wish i had that job 18:22:55 could write a script to do it for me :) 18:22:59 couldnt take the cad drawings the old machinist left for building our telescopes from cad to solid works 18:23:17 she re built all of them from .bmp images in solid works. 18:23:34 maybe she only knows "Start", and was never trained on "Import". 18:23:42 she claims AutoCad did not have enough information about the parts 18:23:48 uhmmm 18:24:18 Although I have already built the entire production run of parts from the autocad drawings and we wont be building any more. 18:25:10 I dont know AutoCad at all, but I know "Stupid" when i see it... 18:26:51 bill20r3 I have built a couple of ISP's and have worked as a network admin. 18:28:28 in 2005 ? 18:28:59 too simple 18:29:16 sed_, can you get me a good deal on about 100 OC48 or OC192 routers? 18:30:17 SWPaddons, not to long ago the local super computing center was paying 4.5k per month for a T3.. so no... I think not 18:30:33 45k rather 18:31:06 no - I mean the hardware 18:31:29 oh yea.. um cant think of the name... 18:31:33 me either ;) 18:31:37 they were big on ATM 18:31:46 not foundry... 18:31:50 is cheap in the $1k range, $10k, or $100k each? 18:32:03 * giacus first provider was 14.400 modem connection in milan 18:32:05 later 18:32:12 300baud babyeeee. 18:32:13 giacus is now known as giacus_afk 18:32:33 Marconi???? 18:32:34 110 baud - you insensitive clod 18:32:49 yep :P marconi 18:33:04 they had good FreeBSD suport 18:33:47 hmmm 18:34:06 There is always ADC Kentrox... $$$$$$$$$ 18:34:18 you had 110 baud? 18:34:21 scary 18:34:40 yes, with a Tandy modem that you put the phone handsdet onto 18:34:53 those were cool 18:35:15 they used a high end variant of that on the movie war games 18:35:24 Mmmwargames 18:35:33 <--- owns protovision.com. 18:35:40 yep - the silver ones with the toggle switch for (something I can't remember) 18:36:05 if you flipped the switch fast enough you coud up the baud rate 18:36:11 heh 18:37:21 we need one of those 18:37:32 it will go good with the 21" lathe for making watch parts 18:38:08 heh 18:38:35 wasn't that the Hayes Smartmodem? 18:38:36 the modem can speak GD&T to solid works and make the part with no G-Code 18:38:40 extruded aluminum case? 18:38:50 I'm not sure Hayes was around in the 110 baud days 18:39:00 from 300 on, they were 18:39:11 I had an Atari with 300 baud, it was bad ass 18:39:18 * bill2or3 tries to remember. 18:39:32 my first terminal was actuall a Brother electronic typewriter. 18:39:48 printed out stuff from bbs's. (built in scrollback!) 18:39:49 heh 18:40:10 Wyse (spelling) 18:40:40 my first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000 18:40:46 what about using the shafts from car shock absorbers for rails? are they precision ground straight? 18:40:49 sed, you win. 18:40:56 mine was an atari. 18:41:14 I was the state rep for Atari 18:41:36 cool. 18:41:57 poor atari. :-( 18:42:07 if Nolen Bushnell got people to accept the name to mean computer and not games.. he would have ruled 18:42:19 his product fary exceeded IBM and Apple 18:42:26 my boss here has a Computer Space game that he got Nolan to sign across the side. 18:42:31 far 18:42:32 it's his pride & joy. 18:42:34 if only I could have afforded a TT030 - sigh 18:43:33 anyone have an opinion on my shock-absorber-shaft-linear-rail idea? 18:43:42 to this day I would like to konw what AtariWriter on a ROM cartrage couldnt do that WordStar and a 3' stack of manuals couldnt.. 18:43:57 crash unexpectedly? 18:44:05 could 18:44:11 heh 18:44:40 err - show multiple fonts simultaneously with graphics? 18:44:56 multiple fonts are overrated. 18:45:07 heh - well, AtariWriter couldn't do that 18:45:09 I dont remember if either could 18:45:45 to get a different font you just replace the daisy wheel 18:46:28 I had an extremely cool daisy-wheel printer that would autoload (it held a full ream of paper) 18:47:16 Diablo, baby 18:47:26 the 630, I believe 18:47:29 no, I think it was IBM 18:49:14 we took a tour of the IBM plant here when I was in high school 18:49:35 they had a line printer that was laser-dried, and could print as fast as I could run 18:55:30 rayh has joined #emc 18:55:35 I have a good one, my friend worked at a university on a vax which had a changetape command that didnt always work, one day across campus he saw a dude working at a terminal get up when a bell sounded to change a tape. he was informed thats how hte changetape command worked. 18:55:48 heh 18:56:26 that and a hard drive that came with a box of metal filings for data recovery.. 18:57:56 back before the read head was invented huh 19:04:32 giacus_afk is now known as giacus 19:07:48 Hi fenn Thanks for the test of the config stuff the other day. 19:09:46 hi rayh 19:10:06 nice to meet you :) 19:10:12 Hi. 19:10:34 do you remember ? 19:10:43 Not yet. 19:10:57 mmh .. ok 19:11:04 I was Jacky^ 19:11:13 Ah. 19:11:16 now Jacky^ rip .. 19:11:35 Okay. That works for me. 19:11:38 rayh: they sayd was a female nick :( 19:11:55 so I changed it 19:12:03 just to be sure .. 19:12:05 I remember the name from the web stuff. 19:12:15 :) 19:12:41 anyway Jacky' sayd to me to greetin rayh 19:12:56 you will never seen him here around :/ 19:13:05 And greeting to you. 19:13:11 hahaha 19:13:15 :P 19:13:30 tell that to Jackie Gleason 19:13:56 Now there was a man's man. 19:14:26 hahaha 19:14:56 found him, funny man 19:15:38 would this be suitable for use as a linear rail? http://tinyurl.com/9ty9n 19:17:26 I refused a dozen or so cookies. I wonder if they'll serve it to me. 19:17:28 * giacus tryng to understnd what it is 19:18:06 ebay auction for " 19:18:07 STARRETT 496 PRECISION FLAT STOCK 5/8" x 5/8" x 18" NEW" 19:19:23 dunno .. 19:19:37 how would you mount it to the frame? 19:19:57 my cousin yesterday talkedt to me about optical bars 19:20:23 maybe he founs cheaper bars 19:20:28 found 19:20:43 what's that ? 19:22:49 fenn, not sure, probablly tap it from one side and bolt it to a 1/4" plate of stainless 19:23:01 3/4 inch or 1.9 cm will sag if you put much weight on it. 19:23:25 how much is "much weight" 19:23:28 * bill2or3 thinks 19:23:54 I imagine there'd be like 30lbs or so, with the 'Y' table and the workpiece 19:24:06 the 3/4 by 1/14 would be much stronger but twice the price 19:24:08 I could use a support every 6" or so. 19:24:21 like little pillars. 19:24:33 1 1/4 19:24:46 typ0ing 101 again 19:25:18 heh 19:25:28 how thick do you think I'd need to avoid sag? 19:25:30 So the Y table would sit down on it with bearings on three sides. 19:25:47 yes. 19:26:18 maybe make one of the side bearings adjustable, and the other one spring-loaded. 19:26:35 Sure that should work well. 19:27:06 I guess I could stick a dti under it mid-span and see if it's sagging, then add supports as needed. 19:27:43 do I need to worry about using specific grade bearings, or should most be fine? 19:27:53 The thompson rail I've got here is about that size and mounts every 2.5 inches 19:28:04 how long is it? 19:28:16 and how heavy is it's payload? 19:28:28 I wouldn't worry about grade. But you ought to ask les 19:28:39 I guess there's no need to elevate it really, just attach right to the base. 19:28:41 800 lb or so. 19:28:49 oh, heh, I'm looking at like 10lbs max 19:28:51 rayh: are you familiar with plasma cutter ? 19:29:14 Just a bit. 19:29:26 giacus: 19:29:33 my cuosin would build one 19:29:40 bill2or3: weight is the least of your worries.. cutting forces even for frozen snot (mdf) are in the hundreds of pounds 19:30:01 I will take some pic of his equipement in the next days 19:30:11 ahh, gotcha, so I should be more concerned with X and Y forces than "Z" ? 19:30:15 I need some help about it 19:30:24 you should be more concerned with rigidity than accuracy 19:30:27 giacus: Good I'd like to see the machine 19:30:53 i.e. a 3" pipe would probably be better 19:30:55 what kind of help do you need? 19:30:58 aahh, so I'm obsessing on "flat" when I should worry more about "stiff" 19:31:03 right 19:31:07 bdi has a FP bootspalsh with a progress meter, doens't it? 19:31:13 you cant get any accuracy if the machine is wobbling all over the place 19:31:23 thanks for explaining, I'd hate to go all out on the wrong attributes. 19:31:46 rayh: according to robin discussion, we would like to build a cnc-plasma-cutter using stepper motors 19:31:54 so like 1" rails bolted straight to a sheet of 1/4 stainless should be pretty good. 19:32:02 bill2or3: what you're really after is "dynamic stiffness" which means you take into account the resonant damping (or lack of it) in your materials 19:32:05 I will disturb you later .. :) 19:32:19 * bill2or3 googles for "resonant damping" 19:32:20 k 19:33:16 hmmm pretty sparse results on google for that particular magic phrase 19:33:26 you knw what resonance is, and what damping is, right? 19:33:29 yeah. 19:33:43 well they're opposites of each other.. 19:33:50 more damping = less resonance 19:33:51 yeah, but I'm not %100 clear on how they go together in this context 19:34:11 you mean the wiggle you're going to get from the interaction between the cutting bit and the workpiece? 19:34:16 yeah 19:34:28 and how resistant your base is to developing resonance (ie: increased wiggle) due to that? 19:35:02 well the whole machine has to be resistant to vibration 19:35:13 I suspect I'm overthinking this, and I should just get some fat pipe and skate bearings. :-| 19:35:28 and that resistance comes from rigidity, correct? 19:35:32 you will need to think about it eventually 19:35:46 dynamic damping can be improved by lots of different things 19:35:58 so do you think a 1/4" plate is stiff enough for a base? 19:36:02 or should I go thicker? 19:36:31 i would go with steel tubes filled with sand/clay or concrete 19:36:39 er sand/oil 19:36:43 I mean for the base that they're bolted to. 19:37:03 what base? 19:37:17 the plate, the piece that the rails are attached to. 19:37:26 hmmm 19:37:52 here's a nice page les wrote: http://www.lmwatts.com/straightedge.html 19:38:00 I bet that's gonna be expen$ive 19:38:19 nah it doesnt get much cheaper than that actually 19:38:37 unless you make your own level or something.. 19:38:42 * bill2or3 reads. 19:39:03 I mean that a 2foos square sheet of 1/4 stainless probablly isnt cheap. 19:39:14 at least compared to the aluminum I usually get for stuff 19:39:19 you wouldnt want to use stainless anyway 19:39:25 it's a pita to work with 19:39:53 yeah, I tried to cut some for a stirling I'm working on, got about 1/4" before I decided that alu was good enough. 19:40:16 you think just regular non-stainless steel? (alu is to flexy, right?) 19:41:08 aluminum is a very resonant material.. regular steel is a little better but not a whole lot 19:41:18 but steel is twice as stiff as al 19:41:37 better than steel would be cast iron, and better than that would be polymer concrete 19:41:57 and then maybe granite with viscoelastic shear layer :) 19:42:29 anyway steel is more than good enough for a wood router 19:43:32 filling the tubes with sand/oil helps to dissipate the energy in the vibrations 19:43:37 and adds mass 19:43:43 does cast iron tap well? 19:43:46 which lowers the resonant frequency 19:43:56 yeah cast iron is nice to work with, but its dirty 19:44:13 its self lubricating so tapping is easy 19:44:59 I'm building something for metal, not for wood. 19:45:06 btw. 19:45:19 oh, then you probably shouldnt call it a router.. (?) 19:45:29 or maybe i'm just confused 19:45:30 did I? my bad. 19:45:37 yeah, I want to mill/engrave. 19:45:50 wood is for sissies. :-) 19:46:10 everything has its proper use 19:46:32 wood is kinda like tough styrofoam 19:47:24 acemi has left #emc 19:47:37 this page refers to a "small surface plate", is that just a piece of metal that's known to be flat? 19:47:53 so, with metal cutting you're going to have to worry a lot more about vibration and rigidity 19:48:08 a surface plate is a 2" thick granite tile 19:48:11 usually 19:48:20 and they're very flat 19:48:28 gotcha. 19:49:05 some surface plates are cast iron.. they have grooves in them which are good for scraping off blueing dye 19:49:59 you might want to have a look at my wiki if you are going to be building machines from scratch: http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/ 19:50:12 http://cgi.ebay.com/SURFACE-PLATE-MACHINISTS-GAGE-STAND-TOOLING_W0QQitemZ7586990109QQcategoryZ58247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 19:50:32 * bill2or3 adds wiki to his mill-bookmarks file 19:52:11 i'd go with enco.. you get free shipping if you spend over $50.. (need a coupon though) 19:53:29 I'm sure I'l spend >$50 a couple of times over. :-) 19:54:35 yeppers.. get a couple boxes of hex socket cap screws while you're at it 19:54:53 we have a decent fastener store here. 19:54:58 ok 19:55:01 though enco is probablly cheaper. 19:55:18 one thing i learned is not to skimp on fasteners 19:55:30 yeah, cheap fasteners are nothing but heartache. 19:57:23 :) 19:59:02 oh and get spiral thread taps 19:59:24 for some reason they are more accurate and that means they are much easier to turn 19:59:25 who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ? 19:59:31 steve/ray 19:59:54 rayh PING 20:00:13 Hey what's up. 20:00:53 "who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ?" 20:00:57 64 bytes from 66.249.93.104: icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms 20:01:04 Steve Stallings is the webmaster 20:01:17 the EMC board is in charge of content. 20:01:17 rayh By chance you interested in some hosting for linuxcnc.org for $60/YEAR 1200MB storage and 25000MB traffic/month ? 20:01:17 64 bytes from rayh icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms 20:01:20 :P 20:01:31 I own the site name for a couple more years. 20:02:38 rayh ? 20:02:42 Where is the site located? 20:02:55 rayh TX 20:03:14 Yours? 20:03:46 rayh no, my hosts, but I trust him, and thats a hard thing for me to do. He's a good ole boy too =) 20:03:54 rayh http://5under5.com/low_cost_web_hosting_plans.html 20:04:12 Jymmm: how much for a year ? 20:04:15 rayh hes' running a special double up for the top 3 pkgs 20:04:25 I'll copy this to the board list and we'll see what shakes out. 20:04:25 giacus http://5under5.com/low_cost_web_hosting_plans.html 20:04:26 ops 20:04:28 sorry .. 20:04:31 np 20:04:33 seen it 20:05:27 rayh be sure to read "Grand Opening Limited Time Double Up Offer!" on the same page. 20:06:14 rayh: I only mention it because I know someone that's trying to download an ISO and it's v e r y s l o w 20:06:56 I didn't think we had an ISO on the linuxcnc.org site itself. 20:07:07 rayh you could now =) 20:07:28 Jymmm: 25G is not very many ISO downloads 20:07:36 you don't get many different ISOs in 1200MB either 20:07:39 For a while, the sherline site was serving about 1/2 tb per month of emc stuff. 20:07:51 maybe I could put in a good word for mirroring it.. 20:07:53 * bill2or3 thinks 20:08:01 I certainly wouldn't want to pay for that much. 20:08:09 no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cig?swpadnos :) 20:08:17 no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?swpadnos :) 20:08:17 * fenn snickers 20:08:17 how big is it, and how much transfer(in gigs) does it do monthly? 20:08:17 ray oh, ok. np then, just a thought is all. 20:08:18 these people offer a lot of storage (20GB in the bottom plan) and bandwidth (1TB in the bottom plan) but they're very slow running my CGI scripts: http://www.dreamhost.com/shared/comparison.html 20:08:20 oops ;) 20:08:36 they seem OK to me, but I have no content on my sites 20:08:46 cncgear is hosted on dreamhost 20:08:47 The linuxcnc server itself is small. 20:08:51 real-world performance seems to be about 200 KB/s downloading large static files on a cable modem 20:08:56 jepler %60/mo vs $60/year is a BIG diff though =) 20:09:02 yep - same for me on DSL 20:09:16 SWPadnos: know any cheap/fast jpeg compression chips? 20:09:29 FPGA 20:09:32 Jymmm: 2-year plan is $7.95/month, more like 20:09:33 mirrors.xmission.com <--- here. 20:09:42 Jymmm: and I got the first year for $30, so I'm giving them a try... 20:10:25 jepler: it's all good. 20:11:19 $16/mo, 2-year prepay, 60G storage, 1.6 TB transfer, free domain name, tons of email, and they just added subversion to the goodies list 20:11:26 (on dreamhost) 20:11:58 well, the cheapest on 5under5.com is $0.99/month 20:12:32 SWPadnos: if you want to try it out, sign up with the code "DMH"; at least when I signed up, it gave 93% off the first year. http://forevergeek.com/geek_resources/dreamhost_promo_codes.php 20:12:38 40M - you can barely fit DSL in that ;) 20:12:49 SWPadnos: but like I said, it's very slow running my CGI scripts, so I'm not thrilled with them. 20:12:51 I've already signed up 20:12:55 SWPadnos it's not for your porn collection silly! 20:13:01 cncgear.com is there 20:13:14 Jymmm: you lead off by talking about a slow .ISO image download, didn't you? 20:13:17 SWPadnos: oh, I didn't know. 20:13:28 damn - I wish I had known about that before :) 20:13:37 SWPadnos oh cncgear is yours? 20:13:39 yep 20:13:58 SWPadnos lol, that's the V E R Y S L O W iso dl! 20:14:17 the thing I like about dreamhost is that they always upgrade you to the best deal they offer 20:14:27 they've upped my storage and transfer 3 times already 20:14:41 plus I get extra weekly (it goes up by about 1% per week) 20:14:59 what kind of sped are you getting? 20:15:01 speed 20:15:04 Jymmm: what speed are you calling "V E R Y S L O W"? I measured 200 MB/s downloading 2-megabyte jpegs 20:15:21 Jymmm: and that's on some burger joint's free wireless 20:15:31 200 KBytes, no? 20:15:45 OC48 wifi huh jepler? 20:15:47 200M/sec would be fast indeed 20:15:55 OC192 20:16:00 er, right, 200 KB/s 20:16:02 sorry 20:16:12 50kb/s 20:16:19 that's what I get as well, but I'm on 2Mbit DSL, so that's my expected cap 20:16:36 Jymmm, off Dreamhost? 20:16:51 jepler 200 Kb/s not 200KB/s 20:16:59 SWPadnos whereever cncgear is hosted 20:17:29 that's unuusually slow. can you get faster rates from other places right now? (like kernel.org or something) 20:17:48 SWPadnos I'm not dlong, someone else is. 20:17:52 dl'ing 20:17:55 Jymmm: I meant 200 kilobytes per second 20:17:59 oh - who, and where? 20:18:33 though right now wget of http://cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/bdi-4.38.iso is varying between 50 and 100 K/s as reported by wget 20:18:36 1% ega 2:07:55 20:18:46 1% ETA 2:07 20:18:47 I mean 20:19:38 yeah - EGA is so old hat ;) 20:20:15 strange - I'm well over 130kB/sec, and still climbing 20:20:56 SWPadnos kb/s 20:21:06 kB 20:21:26 little b is bits, big B is bytes 20:21:27 168 kBytes/sec now 20:21:43 does it actaully say BYTES? 20:21:51 about 1 hour left, after 2min 38 sec 20:22:07 mozilla, 173 kB/sec, and I'm looking at the total transferred as well 20:22:19 SWPadnos you on cable? 20:22:22 yep 170kB is about normal for dsl 20:22:24 DSL, 2Mbit 20:22:41 this is slower than normal, but not dreadfully slow 20:23:14 the 180 kB/sec (now) is an overall average, including the first few seconds when it was setting up the transfer 20:24:43 this transfer rate is comparable to a self-hosted server on a T1 line 20:25:23 Jymmm, can you fo a traceroute to cncgear? 20:25:27 s/fo/do/ 20:26:55 skunkworks has joined #emc 20:31:51 32ms 20:31:59 not bad. 20:32:05 k4ts has joined #emc 20:32:11 I figured it'd be low, they're in LA 20:32:29 how many hops? 20:32:36 13 20:32:49 ok - same for me, but I've got a 111ms ping time 20:33:10 7 of which are on the ATM cloud 20:33:49 I don't get out of my ISP for 3 or 4 hops 20:33:53 hello 20:33:58 I only have about 40 ft of copper, and the rest is all fiber. 20:34:10 hmmm 20:34:11 what's your connection? 20:34:15 dman it 20:34:18 dsl 20:34:30 failed to surprise k4ts :( 20:34:32 21:32 [k4ts(n=K4ts@62.123.215.205)] hey giacus 20:34:32 21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@62.123.215.205)] ah ah 20:34:33 21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@62.123.215.205)] tanto vedono il tuo ip 20:34:35 hi jymmy 20:34:45 hi k4ts 20:34:53 ah ahhhhhhh 20:34:55 hi k4ts, did you hear jacky died? 20:35:13 k4ts: how you seen my IP ? 20:35:17 bho? Jymmm 20:35:23 strange .. 20:35:25 k4ts joke 20:35:31 I'm using ipv7 .. 20:35:35 :D 20:35:51 ok ok .. yu win 20:36:14 giacus you suck as a SysAdmin hiding 20:36:20 hehe 20:36:41 k4ts: serach paura in the dictionary please .. 20:36:51 hi hi 20:36:54 and tell me 20:37:45 no serach seacrh 20:37:48 search 20:38:07 teachers error 20:38:24 Jymmm: you can fear what you don't know .. 20:38:32 I know Internet :) 20:38:49 I do not fear it .. 20:39:12 lets scan k4ts IP ... 20:39:35 nmap -everthing-I-think- ..now 20:39:38 hahah 20:40:06 I go to sing 20:40:19 k4ts: Jacky's gone .. 20:40:24 forever 20:40:26 in paltalk 20:40:33 ah ah 20:40:35 platalk ? :P 20:40:43 giacus chancge 20:40:46 change 20:40:49 nick 20:41:08 ok, lets go in paltalk :D 20:41:10 ih ih 20:44:17 singing in paltalk? 20:45:07 :) 20:45:18 running the laptop .. 20:45:50 I do not have windows in my wk :/ 20:46:00 ach I have a problem...must reboot 20:46:18 les_w has quit 20:46:47 k4ts: are you ready for 4 mb dsl ? 20:46:50 :D 20:48:16 yes singingeh giacus uh ? 20:48:35 whaith 20:48:42 whaith 20:48:47 whaitho :) 20:50:55 _ ___ _ 20:50:55 | | / _ \ | | 20:50:55 | | | | | || | 20:50:55 | |___| |_| || |___ 20:50:55 |_____|\___/ |_____| 20:51:14 rotfl 20:53:55 les_w has joined #emc 20:56:01 does my XY travel have to be square, or can I make Y twice as long as X? 20:56:11 and have most CAM deal with that gracefully? 20:56:39 non-square tables are the rule rather than the exception 20:56:41 there are no restrictions on that 20:56:55 a bridgeport has a table that's 9x42 inches (or even wider) 20:57:06 travel is 24-30 in X, and 12-16 in Y 20:57:16 (not 2:1 either) 20:57:28 k4ts has quit 20:57:35 k, I'm just trying to decide what dimensions to use. 20:57:37 usually X is the long dimension because one stands in front of the machine 20:58:04 I want to be able to work stuff about 10" square, but a few extra inches on one axis would be nice. 20:58:32 12x18! 20:59:02 so my workpiece size limit per-axis is the rail-length minus the spacing between the outer edges of the rail-bearings, correct? 20:59:16 yes 20:59:39 looking at a mill w/ a gantry is the dimension that runs parallel to the gantry X or Y? 21:00:00 mine is y 21:00:07 but what's in a name? 21:00:09 heh 21:00:15 but there's not a generally accepted convention for it? 21:00:52 ok, so I'm thinking a 24" rails running "Y" with a 12" table. 21:01:03 the gantry itself usually moves in X, the head moves in Y, and the vertical is Z, but it really doesn't matter 21:01:04 that'll give me a 12" work area without moving the piece. 21:01:15 you need to be sure that it's a right-hand coordinate system though 21:01:17 ok padnos, that's what I needed to know. 21:02:19 do the bearings that the table is riding on need to be at the very outer edge of the table? 21:02:27 or can you move them in a bit and get a bit more travel. 21:02:39 I suppose if you're gonna do that you may as well just use a smaller table. 21:02:42 * bill2or3 thinks aloud. 21:02:45 no you can have some overhang 21:03:13 is there a formula, or just little enough that it wont tip? 21:04:04 well heh i do FEM analysis on the structures 21:04:18 uhm. 21:04:20 depends on what you want to cut 21:04:25 ok. (I have no idea what that means) 21:04:37 k4ts has joined #emc 21:04:39 no metal? 21:04:56 how about a 12" table with an inch on each end of the "y" (perpindicular to gantry), does that sound reasonable? 21:05:07 I want to cut metal. 21:05:26 yeah sounds ok 21:05:45 ops downnfall 21:06:51 k, so that'll give me a working area of 12*14 inches. 21:06:58 should be plenty. 21:07:04 on 24" rails. 21:10:13 understand this would be a light duty machine 21:10:33 yes, of course. 21:10:37 12x14 metal cutting could easily be 1000 pounds of iron 21:10:41 I dont plan on making any engine blocks. 21:10:54 you can do aluminum and such 21:11:06 maybe some small RC heli parts, decorative badges for my vespa, stuff like that. 21:11:13 yeah 21:11:21 would do that fine 21:11:33 aluminum, brass, plastic, wood, no steel or iron. 21:11:47 no problem 21:12:06 free cutting steel is actually not bad 21:12:16 12Lxx 21:12:47 well I use 12l14 for most stuff that isn't structural or to be welded 21:13:15 but it does require higher forces in general than 6061 or something 21:14:30 the aluminum and such on this 12x14 would be high rpm low chipload 21:14:35 not efficient 21:14:49 but can be done with a lighter structure 21:15:09 basically routing 21:15:32 * fenn goes back to his hexapod schemes.. 21:15:41 heh 21:16:02 i am wondering how much flex i'll get in delrin anti backlash nuts 21:16:14 since basically all the cutting force is aimed right at the nut 21:16:33 oh not much if the nut is long 21:16:58 how long? like 2-3x diameter? 21:17:10 couple pitch diameters and it can be pretty stiff 21:17:51 it's in almost pure shear 21:18:06 les the room is: Italia col cuore e con la musica noi ce la faremo! I'm velenus 21:18:22 ok I'll go in thanks 21:21:50 * fenn goes to bed 21:22:06 g'nite 21:22:22 night fenn 21:22:26 G night fenn 22:11:09 Ephexis has joined #EMC 22:15:50 logger_aj has joined #emc 22:15:50 topic is: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home:www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller" 22:15:50 Users on #emc: logger_aj Ephexis k4ts les_w skunkworks rayh sed_ giacus Jymmm A-L-P-H-A anonimasu fenn LawrenceG @ChanServ picnet ccjoe jepler cradek paelscrit lerman SWPadnos djb_rh CIA-17 alex_joni bill2or3 jtr_ robin steves_logging websys ValarQ 22:48:52 rayh is now known as rayh_away 22:51:11 giacus has quit 23:07:34 skunkworks has quit 23:16:56 anyone used these drivers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584951843 23:17:05 * jepler looks 23:18:42 I know someone else on the channel has asked about these 23:19:00 I know everyone loves geckos, but they are $$$$$ 23:19:33 only 36vdc 23:19:53 try these, for cheap but possibly good drivers: http://www.sxlist.com/techref/io/stepper/linistep/index.htm 23:20:02 also 35V, and no, I've never used them 23:20:18 only? 23:20:22 open source though, so that's good (both the hardware and the software) 23:20:25 bill2or3 I bought Xylotex, but if I knew then, what I know now, I would have bought Geckos 23:20:36 see - and Jymmm is a cheapskate 23:20:38 I dont understand why the drivers all want so many more times voltage than the stepper motor uses 23:20:44 err - budget minded person 23:20:51 so they can go faster 23:21:02 bill2or3 If for nothing else other than the anti-stall factor. 23:21:16 so are they being driven at more volts than they're spec'd for? 23:21:21 bill2or3 you run steppers at 20 to 25 times their rated voltage. 23:21:25 you do? 23:21:29 I did not know that. 23:21:38 yes - voltage doesn't kill the motors until you get very high - it's current that kills 23:21:50 bill2or3: Steppers are inductors. The current rise time is important, otherwise you have less power at high step rates. 23:21:57 but the choppers are current-limited, so they don't kill the motors 23:22:04 ahh, so you're actually running them at whatever voltage your powersupply outputs? 23:22:08 bill2or3 read this --> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf 23:22:15 yes, but no higher than the rated current 23:22:17 bill2or3: A "chopped" supply with high voltage gives you fast current rise time while obeying to power limit of the stepper 23:22:22 heh, that's on my screen at home. 23:22:34 well, read it, then come back and ask questions ;) 23:22:53 yeah, I opened it at like 2:30 am, so I didnt exactly comprehend it so well. 23:23:12 SWPadnos: know anybody who's actually used linistepper? I'm put off by this picture of the boards with their heatsinks: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/RB-ezy-Q33/jelly01.jpg 23:23:21 heh 23:23:37 it is a homebrew-centered kit 23:23:38 that's a big-ass sink 23:23:54 I don't know anyone who uses them, but I saw them on eBay when I was first looking at servos/steppers 23:24:23 $75 for 3 is cheap, for sure. 23:24:49 bill2or3 what kind of machine? 23:24:59 hf micromill 23:25:25 ah 23:26:19 if you can fabricate the PCBs, consider http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm .. bipolar, up to 46V 23:26:26 heh - here's a nice CNC: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/pele-balorda-com/Cnc.jpg 23:27:05 jymm, just a small DIY mill 23:27:46 bill2or3: Well, you could always move the geckos to another machine if you wanted to later on. 23:28:11 yeah. 23:28:19 did you replace your xylotex? 23:28:38 heh - each gecko costs almost as much as the mill (or is it a bit more) :) 23:29:25 bill2or3 no, still using them, but once in a while I make Sailors blush. 23:29:36 s/them/xylotex/ 23:30:14 ehe 23:30:31 my mill was like $240, so a gecko is a bit less. 23:31:06 bill2or3 When you have 3 days into a project, then get 99% completed and it stalls and you have to start over agian... there's gonna be a LOT of cussing goin on. 23:31:11 but I'll spend more than that on building a cnc one. 23:31:37 when you say stalls, do you mean it's not able to drive the motors because it cant pass enough power? 23:31:43 so you have to slow everything down? 23:32:03 no - so it screws up the part, because one of the axes stopped ... 23:32:20 if everything slowed down, there wouldn't be problems 23:32:30 (except for finish and prematre tool wear) 23:32:33 premature 23:33:27 bill2or3 stall == pause one axis just long enough to destroy your work. 23:34:18 ahh. 23:34:37 and that happens because your drivers are under-powered? 23:34:59 bill2or3 No, the nature of stepper motors, explained in the pdf link 23:35:24 k, I'll read that over until I understand it completely. 23:37:27 bill2or3 http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/physics.html#damping 23:38:00 Living with Resonance 23:40:27 * bill2or3 reads. 23:41:45 the "Controlling resonance in the low-level drive circuitry" part is where the Gecko's excell? 23:42:44 bill2or3 geckos have circitry to prevent stalling. 23:44:26 stall ing is also called "Mid-Band Resonace" or "Mid-Band Instability" 23:44:38 is that something only they do, or is it a common feature? 23:44:47 gotcha 23:44:57 only one I'm aware of that offers that. 23:45:56 k. 23:46:14 so it soulds like everything else is a compromise. 23:47:31 'sounds' 23:49:23 what is the average cost to retrofit a small mill to CNC? 23:50:26 sed, I've been looking, and it varies a lot, but my best guess is somewhere in the $600-1000 area 23:51:08 can I leave the Acme screws in or is it a must to replace them? 23:54:12 what mill do you have? 23:54:30 well the one I would play with is a small POS Jet 23:54:38 standard grizzly/harborfreight type? 23:54:39 knee mill 23:54:52 not quite harbor freight 23:54:55 close 23:55:01 I dont really know on the screws. 23:55:19 I'm just researching still, I haven't started work. 23:55:20 Although some harbor freight stuff is quite good 23:55:33 what have you decided for the motors? 23:56:34 I got some 282oz nema23's off ebay 23:56:42 PIC Servo makes a controller that will run three phase motors up to like 8 amps 23:57:10 and its serial 23:57:26 one small box will control 4 axis 23:57:33 or maby three, I forget 23:58:27 I got these ones: http://tinyurl.com/dzao6 23:58:30 serial? wierd. 23:59:38 what are you gong to drive them with?