00:00:06 gday 00:00:20 busy day! 00:00:25 end of month ... :) 00:00:56 you'll be suprised how much we can departch and invoice in one day when we have to :) 00:19:27 g night 00:19:35 Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk 00:52:52 $ cvs update 00:52:52 ssh: connect to host cvs.sourceforge.net port 22: Connection refused 00:52:58 anybody else having problems with sourceforge cvs? 00:54:10 aha "Project CVS Service: Offline - Unplanned Downtime In-Progress" 00:54:58 rayh has joined #emc 00:55:38 hi ray 00:58:22 LawrenceG has quit 00:59:09 LawrenceG has joined #emc 01:30:29 Hi jepler 01:41:43 heh - delayed reaction :) 01:41:47 s 01:50:40 I guess and so's this. 01:51:01 working on halconfig with a wide broom. 01:52:24 cool 01:52:32 need a dustpan? 01:54:53 Gonna use the bmf vacuum on the floor pretty soon. 01:55:02 heh 01:55:30 question? 01:55:35 sure 01:56:18 You've got a button named "setup linkpp" 01:56:30 you press it and it shows two entry widgets 01:56:46 that you can fill by clicking on leaves in the tree widget. 01:57:04 You've also got a button named "submit" 01:57:27 What do you want to see when you press submit? 01:57:50 is there a list of signals onscreen anywhere? 01:58:06 not yet 01:58:25 ok - it's in the tree, but not necessariily visible yet (right?) 01:58:35 right 01:58:50 will it be automatically added to the tree when you click submit? 01:59:07 or will that require a refresh? 01:59:09 yep if it can without having to break another link 01:59:35 I'll put the tree refresh in with the command to submit 01:59:45 you probably don't want to do that 02:00:04 it's two commands that may race, and on my machine it takes 5 seconds for refresh 02:00:40 I'm getting the impression that you'd like to see the reply from bin/halcmd show $thesigtobemade. 02:00:45 is the area used for watches available for use, or are the pin name widgets there? 02:00:58 there should be something, but I'm not sure what at this point 02:01:44 Right. Some folk would go right on making linkpps 02:01:52 if the watch area is available, then it can be used for user feedback 02:01:56 others might choose to setp or sets 02:02:01 the second one will fail ... 02:02:23 click - "hey, did that work?" click click click ... :) 02:02:23 Right it woud only work for a linksp or linkps 02:03:09 you know that it worked if you get a null response from halcmd 02:03:16 That is where the bin/halcmd show sig $thisnewsig is better than a puts to the open channel. 02:03:16 anything wlse would be an error 02:03:19 else 02:03:35 all of the -skf replies are empty 02:03:41 just puts show sig $thisnewsig 02:04:25 In a simple text area above the buttons and entry widgets. 02:04:29 hmmm - it might be good to have a way of asking for ?normal? output on a command by command basis 02:04:43 the user can then figure out if it worked or not. 02:04:55 you still have a race condition 02:05:05 possibly 02:05:26 it's two instances of halcmd, you can't necessarily be sure which one will complete firs 02:05:31 t 02:05:35 (I think) 02:06:03 so we need to stage the submit and follow with the show. 02:06:25 and update the tree widget in the background. 02:06:35 yep, or just submit, and print "new signal "yaddaYadda" created" if you get the right response 02:06:47 if you get the wrong response, print what you got 02:06:56 "Error: halcmd barfed on that" 02:07:30 I like the "dumb fsck" response myself. 02:07:40 "Error: halcmd barfed on that, you dumb fsck!" 02:07:54 Okay that's it. 02:07:57 heh 02:08:15 "Here's what HALCMD had to say about it, you useless twit:" 02:08:25 Maybe add a icon of "barf" 02:08:30 sound effects, too 02:09:25 A user makes pins by loadrt of some sort of thing. 02:09:42 so those would already have to exist when linkpp is issued. 02:09:51 yep 02:10:05 so the signal created by linkpp is the real way to see if it worked. 02:10:23 the bigger issue is that the links will go away if the user unloads a module, and they won't come back if the module is reloaded (to add another PID, for example) 02:10:37 no - if halcmd doesn't return an error, then it worked 02:11:21 but with the -skf option there are no returned errors. 02:11:27 yes there are 02:11:55 none of the error responses have changed, only the headers and show formatting 02:12:03 plus the prompt is changed 02:12:33 ah I see it. 02:12:54 you just don't see errors because you're sending good commands ;) 02:13:26 yea right. I believe you but there's thousands that wouldn't. 02:14:26 heh 02:14:41 just type in a bogus command in the command edit box 02:15:47 oops linkpp works where existing links already are 02:15:57 except in the case of write pins. 02:16:21 ah - yep. 02:16:39 the linksp / linkps commands will automatically unlink a pin if it's already connected somewhere 02:17:22 linkpp the same? 02:18:13 Were going to need a "don't try this at home, kids" disclaimer. 02:18:22 linkpp is an internal macro for newsig / linksp / linksp 02:18:42 the only failure mode is if the signal already exists 02:18:51 (other than HAL internal errors of various types) 02:18:56 okay I see what need to be displayed. 02:19:14 gonna go away and sweep up. 02:19:15 so you couldn't link pin A to pin B, then link pin A to pin C also 02:19:33 eith linkpp used for both cases 02:19:37 Jymmm has quit 02:19:38 s/eith/with/ 02:19:42 except through a block thanks for your help 02:19:48 sure - have fun 02:20:07 rayh has quit 02:48:35 Jymmm has joined #emc 03:03:24 robin_sz has quit 03:25:30 LawrenceG has quit 04:00:56 LawrenceG has joined #emc 04:59:08 Jymmm has quit 04:59:18 Jymmm has joined #emc 05:00:22 Jymmm has quit 05:00:31 Jymmm has joined #emc 05:50:08 ccjoe has quit 06:04:36 ccjoe has joined #emc 08:09:36 Jymmm has quit 08:27:42 picnet has quit 08:52:36 [Global Notice] Hi all. Apologies for not getting back with you on that main rotation server split. We're looking at the problem. Meanwhile, US donor tax receipts for paypal donations have been sent to your paypal email address. If you need a receipt and haven't received one, please message me. Thanks! 08:54:09 [Global Notice] Those are the 2005 tax receipts. We're about to start our 2006-2007 fundraiser for PDPC, so if you would like to help get us going a bit early, please take a look at the freenode website ( http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml ). Thanks, and have a great morning! 10:21:24 picnet has joined #emc 12:17:58 Jymmm has joined #emc 12:36:18 Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^ 12:36:23 morning 12:37:04 Linux Viruscan..... Windows Vista Found Remove it ? (Y/y) 12:37:07 bauhaahahha 12:58:56 Jacky^_ has joined #emc 13:00:01 Jacky^ has quit 13:00:10 hahah funny :) 13:00:20 Jacky^ has joined #emc 13:00:46 Jacky^_ has quit 13:01:32 :P 13:29:40 skunkworks has joined #emc 14:15:25 rayh has joined #emc 14:29:46 Jymmm has quit 14:44:44 no estop flames yet huh ray? 14:50:42 morning 14:50:45 ^_^ 15:11:32 Not yet. 15:11:50 Got any suggestions what we should do to encourage 'em? 15:12:23 I could say I use the mouse to click on the estop button when I need to estop, and it's good enough for me 15:14:04 * Jacky^ is tryng to use the cat .. 15:15:39 That ought to start something cradek 15:15:49 http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller/photo/675881 15:16:55 this damn cat its a bit wilde, wont understant when to puch estop and when not :D 15:16:59 push 15:18:49 And it's paws are just a bit wide to push a single button. 15:18:55 key 15:19:04 :D 15:47:41 hi ray, jacky, chris 15:48:26 Well I am changing the estop chain on my machine in hopes of making it safer so my workers can run it. 15:49:10 I still have the problem of a hot spindle during tool change....the vfd has to stay on 15:49:31 make sure to look through the estop discussion on the users list ;) 15:49:46 Oh I am 15:49:49 heh 15:49:59 Sure. How would the machine react to an estop during tool change? 15:50:07 your machine definitely qualifies for excessive estop hardware 15:50:25 yeah 15:50:36 It could do some damage 15:50:39 especially with employees using it and all 15:50:45 yup. 15:51:10 Well, I am going with 24v and optos everywhere 15:51:23 thanks for reminding me 15:51:49 there's a 24V 21A power supply on eBay 15:51:49 heh 15:52:13 I'm probably going to get that, and have the computer/pendant and LCD run from that supply 15:52:19 I just bought a new condor from mouser. 15:52:57 this one is $20 ;) 15:53:09 I'll put 78l05 regulators at the encoders and optos at the stg. 15:53:10 Power One 15:53:54 gah - I can't stand Mouser's search facilities 15:54:43 I usually use digi key...but sometimes mouser if they are the only one with the part 15:54:47 yep 15:54:55 Mouser is better for the circular MS connectors as well 15:55:05 and wire 15:55:08 yep 15:55:23 but the DigiKey search is actually useful 15:55:33 which I can't say for Mouser, Avnet, Future, Arrow ... 15:56:40 Should be some discussion on what to use the soft estop on emc for 15:56:51 In my case, not much 15:56:58 "hey machine - you can stop now" 15:57:03 ferror 15:57:13 that's about the only thing 15:57:32 that's all that the computer can detect in any case, right? 15:58:03 or some remote stop (like from your computer in the office) 15:58:09 It could do some more I guess 15:58:52 but I wouldn't want to 15:59:15 I wrote some failure mode analisis for the thing yesterday 15:59:36 behavior with a power glitch is a concern 16:00:03 for the computer, or the drives? (or spindle) 16:00:39 so i go to hard estop...computer stays on, but servos are braked and vfd power is removed 16:00:55 I let the spindle coast down 16:01:22 If I brake the spindle it might stop before the servos 16:01:28 which would be very bad 16:01:40 that's the 7HP spindle? 16:01:50 5 16:01:53 4 kW 16:01:56 oh - only 5 ;) 16:02:10 letting it spin shouldn't be a problem 16:02:16 right 16:02:24 do you have tach output available from the servos? 16:02:37 yes 16:02:47 I sense a quad op-amp circuit 16:03:05 sum the servo velocities, and hit the spindle brake if they're below X 16:03:11 (in estop) 16:03:22 well I built up an analog board that senses servo speed and current 16:03:33 and calculates tool force 16:03:55 it can separate tool force from friction and inertia forces 16:03:59 will that be valid when you're trying to stop the servos? 16:04:05 up to a point 16:04:27 well, it is separate and can be battery powered 16:04:45 that circuit could almost run from the back EMF 16:05:01 I modelled the friction with a diode network 16:05:36 so it just solves the second order non linear equation with op amps. 16:06:03 seems to work ok 16:06:14 do you have a circuit diagram somewhere? that sounds like an interesting gizmo 16:06:32 so, I can estop on cutting force 16:06:47 yeah I will check 16:06:57 does it sense tool diameter as well? ;) 16:07:07 (and material) 16:07:15 hah no.... 16:10:21 well then it's useless :) 16:10:39 aw my protel is not working right 16:10:48 99se? 16:10:50 I think it's on there 16:10:53 yeah 16:11:01 ok - I should be able to import that 16:11:23 (damned Altium doesn't import Advanced PCB 2.xx correctly ) 16:11:30 I moved it to another disk and it can't find a file... 16:11:39 of course, the software is 10 years old now, so I guess that's not too bad 16:11:42 heh 16:11:49 the curse of ZIP disks as well 16:14:05 owww "reinstalling the application may help" 16:14:10 bleh 16:14:29 heh - nevermind. if one of us remembers later, we can do it then 16:14:38 I'm not sure the schematic is on there anyway 16:17:51 anyway it's just a bunch of differentiators 16:19:01 the only thing that isn't modelled well is stick slip 16:20:06 so before it slips, it thinks the stick is tool force 16:21:37 right - you'd need to throw in an additional drag component when the speed is near 0 16:21:52 (exactly 0, but in the analog world ...) 16:22:00 uh oh got an email from corporate...they went ahead and ordered some BK sound gear for me to use up there 16:22:20 I guess I have to buy that car right away 16:24:16 They could send the stuff down here....but I need something that can do fft averages at 100 kHz 16:24:42 how about a low frequency spectrum analyzer? 16:25:00 btw the BK 1/4 microphones with -3db at 100k were $1800 each just for the capsule 16:25:01 they generally work well down to DC 16:25:30 Well there is an analyzer up there but it only goes to 25k 16:25:47 so will use a fancy tek scope 16:26:01 they have some brand new ones 16:26:05 25k? - that's not an analyzer, that's a toy 16:26:20 well it is for audio only 16:26:30 heh - there is that 16:26:50 are you actually operating things at 100KHz? 16:27:05 But I seem to be doing all ultrasonics these days 16:27:19 if so, you should have an analyzer that goes to at least 500 KHz, and preferably 1 MHz 16:27:20 yeah 40-100khz 16:28:38 Well the tek scopes can be programmed to average multiple FFTs of pings 16:28:53 rectangular window will work 16:29:05 sure - that gives good average response, but no glitch capture 16:29:22 They ought to just send me the stuff 16:29:25 but then 16:29:40 I am charging 1k a day to drive 16:29:59 plus mileage 16:30:13 and fine meals and hotels 16:30:21 I need to show my face up there I guess 16:30:40 I sure ain't gonna stay at motel 8! 16:31:50 Hilton all the way, baby! 16:32:02 I like having clients pay for my miles and hotel points 16:32:24 I need to visit Switches, Miller, Hobart, Gema, Finishing Systems 16:32:26 and 16:32:35 Chronotherm 16:32:44 I started that division. 16:32:45 I've got round 300k frequent flyer miles, and I'm getting close to having another week at Hilton hotels 16:33:32 I used to stay at pretty fancy hotels I guess 16:33:55 trying to think which one was the fanciest.... 16:34:01 oh yeah.... 16:34:16 the Trianon 16:34:27 at Versailles!!! 16:34:31 haha 16:34:36 heh 16:34:45 never been to France - hope to remedy that some day 16:35:07 I remember the fancy gold and marble lavatories 16:35:17 and a $600 dinner bill 16:35:22 heh 16:35:26 They set me up there 16:35:27 for one? 16:35:36 they being ITW de France 16:35:44 yeah! 16:35:45 Tresbon 16:35:48 Tres bon 16:36:26 I think I've only seen one place where a single person could spend that much on a meal, and it's at London Heathrow airport 16:36:40 but you could easily spend 2x that on lunch there 16:36:51 what was that for....oh yeah I was working with Ricaro seats a while 16:37:11 Oh I moved out of the trianon after a while 16:37:13 not that I'd buy $100 caviar and $400 champagne for lunch 16:37:21 $1000 caviar, that is 16:37:39 No one at versailles but tourists 16:37:43 heh 16:37:51 same with Heathrow ;) 16:38:01 I preferred the left bank....more girls there 16:38:08 and less tops 16:38:36 I have not been there in a while...several years 16:38:54 I have trouble travelling these days 16:39:01 too much work 16:39:33 to be done 16:39:34 the being at a place at a time part is the problem for me 16:39:46 which is why i drive 16:40:05 I can just go at my own pace 16:40:21 I prefer to go at the pilot's pace (which I'm not, at this point) 16:40:23 no hurry up and wait 16:40:38 yes - that does get annoying 16:40:44 Oh I thought about flying myself up there 16:41:11 but no chance of good weather this time of year 16:41:33 my wife took flying lessons a longtime ago. amybe we should go take the classes together 16:41:38 heh - nope 16:42:03 I would just get stuck at some little airport in tennnessee or something 16:42:20 and who needs *that*? 16:42:24 also I have not landed on ice in several years 16:42:34 I used to be pretty good at it 16:42:51 oops - got to go run an errand. be back later 16:42:55 k 16:43:08 SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away 16:48:30 heh ITW de france.. what a crazy world 16:49:54 work for them? 16:50:32 just the idea; "illinois tool works of france" 16:50:47 ITW is really getting big. They were fairly small when I started in 84 16:51:03 its like japan servo of america.. wtf does that mean? 16:51:09 haha 16:51:32 I see they jut bought LPS 16:51:40 you know the rust goop 16:51:42 yeah 16:51:58 i'd like to see a corporate family tree some day 16:52:07 Jacky^ has quit 16:52:08 wonder how many are left 16:52:30 I started at a venture group spinoff of ITW switches 16:52:42 formerly Chicago switch 16:52:59 03jepler * 10emc2/debian/rules: call configure with the correct flags 16:53:14 My job was to create a polymer thick film product line 16:53:28 It took over 5 years 16:53:56 I tried everything...medical, auto, video game stuff... 16:54:25 I wanted something "peel and stick" 16:54:41 like a membrane switch 16:54:49 but with coponents on it 16:55:03 components 16:55:31 to do what.. anything? 16:55:45 ha well to make money 16:56:45 finally found it....we went into the black the sixth year 16:56:56 that product was my mirror heater. 16:56:57 the car heater thing? 16:57:03 wah 16:57:03 yeah 16:57:29 these guys have some cool stuff going on http://www.plasticlogic.com/ 16:57:42 cost a quarter...sell for a buck. Print like newspapers 16:57:57 Jacky^ has joined #emc 16:58:34 03cradek * 10emc2/debian/control: dependencies 17:00:34 ah...polymer semiconductors 17:00:43 polyacetylene 17:01:25 here's to hoping that some day we might print out fully functional circuits on an inkjet 17:01:47 where are they? 17:01:59 all over 17:02:22 hmm have engineering openings 17:02:42 I'll send them some consulting junk 17:02:46 mostly focused in cambridge and boston i bet 17:03:24 funny seems a huge engineering shortage is shaping up 17:03:50 why's that? 17:03:59 don't know 17:04:30 I think younger people don't want to endure the rigors of engineering school 17:04:44 i sure as hell dont 17:04:44 so no one to replace us old farts 17:05:10 it's a lot of work 17:05:32 there's a lot of classes you have to take that have absolutely no relevance to your field 17:05:58 and by the time you get out of college its all out of date anyway 17:06:13 the apprentice system was invented for a reason 17:06:14 guys from india are happy to come here and be engineers (and doctors, and scientists). 17:06:29 yeah...we all take the same core 17:06:58 so cradek is an EE and I'm an AE but we both took thermo! 17:07:06 but really, do you need calculus for semiconductor manufacturing? 17:07:07 well I'm a CE 17:07:23 civil? 17:07:27 chemical? 17:07:30 computer (EE + CS) 17:07:37 ohhh 17:08:43 I think in the future US, most of the highly-educated people are going to be from asia. 17:09:02 yes 17:09:13 well middle class is vanishing 17:09:35 wonder what happens next.. 17:09:45 I assume the debt eventually kills them off 17:09:54 not sure 17:10:09 I just know we had better make things here 17:10:11 in yesterday's paper I read that in 2005 americans saved -.5% of their income 17:10:25 that has happened two years before: 1932, 1933 17:10:33 wow 17:10:53 I am trying to save a lot 17:11:04 it's unamerican 17:11:10 you should be consuming things 17:11:13 because I have this rule.... 17:11:23 owe no money 17:11:25