00:00:07 hell, even a 29-yo N.T. would be OK 00:00:09 huh? 00:00:11 haha 00:00:15 ie, not toothless 00:00:42 nah 29yo too close to wanting kids, biological clock and all that 00:00:56 did that. married a 28 yo (I think) when I was 50 00:01:09 I was so tired... 00:01:17 I married a 32-y.o when I was 29 - does that count? 00:01:23 night all 00:01:24 haha 00:01:28 nite alex_joni 00:01:30 night alex 00:01:33 see ya alex 00:01:44 yup.. have fun 00:01:48 but not too much ;) 00:01:57 the economy sure is good now...turning down work 00:02:04 hope it stays that way 00:02:35 yep 00:02:57 billing at 100 per too..and getting it 00:02:58 remember your favorite Vermont-based PCB and software house :) 00:03:14 sure 00:03:18 haha 00:03:26 I've been at 75 for 5 years, 100 for some clients 00:03:37 I was thinking it was time to increase to 100 00:03:53 people don't seem to take you seriously if you charge too little 00:04:00 I think it's about time to give yourself a raise 00:04:10 100 really is the going rate 00:04:22 yep - I'll charge you 100 ;) 00:04:32 wait a minute here... 00:04:33 haha 00:04:36 heh 00:05:36 and 1000/day is the going rate for plant trips 00:05:54 yep - I do hat already, and half rate for travel or "down" days 00:05:59 s/hat/that/ 00:06:09 sounds like a lot but remember the money isn't worth anything 00:06:23 takes a whellbarrow full just to buy groceries 00:06:36 yep 00:06:52 I read an interesting treatise on how the Federal Reserve system works 00:07:10 ^doesn't 00:07:10 I have read a little 00:07:17 they mentioned that in real terms (ie, a gold standard), the price of things hasn't changed much since Roman times 00:07:50 an ounce of gold would buy you a reasonably nice suit in ancient rome, and about the same in a reasonably good mall or mens store now 00:08:35 well yeah. A growth economy requires inflation as money is created from loaning 00:08:52 but neat about the gold thing 00:09:15 yep, but the amount of "stuff" remains nearly constant, so the larger money supply makes stuff cost more 00:09:34 the only thing is...gold mining is prob 1000% more productive now 00:09:35 http://philologos.org/bpr/files/Misc_Studies/ms060.htm 00:09:50 looking 00:09:57 it's long, but interesting 00:10:18 must be taken with a grain of salt, but largely factual (not "interpretation") 00:10:47 where's my new phone dmanit, they said they would ship it today! 00:10:58 they're trying to fax it over 00:11:02 lol 00:11:44 It'll be nice to upgrade the phones here. 00:11:56 My stuff for the rest of the cnc rewire came today 00:12:07 but I did not work 00:12:18 les_w well get your ass to wiring! 00:12:37 I was cloudless, no wind, and 70 degrees...a record or near record 00:12:48 so I played golf. 00:13:03 oh, play instead of wrok... good man! 00:13:09 heh - in the 40s here, so we're all outside too :) 00:13:21 so 31 at 6 am, 70 at 2 pm 00:13:23 40's?! 00:13:24 dry air 00:13:27 40C 00:13:35 40F - this is Vermont 00:13:46 your outside in the 40's, fuck me 00:13:50 40 is not bad for jan 00:13:55 without even a sweater 00:14:13 well - with a sweater if I want to be out for long 00:14:18 heh 00:14:25 http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KVTESSEX1 00:14:30 this is pretty close to my house 00:14:31 it can get cold down here...below zero once in a while 00:14:56 oops - this one is near my house: 00:15:03 http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KVTESSEX2 00:16:41 man, LTO and AIT-3 tape drives are expensive 00:17:06 here's the vinyard across the street.... 00:17:09 http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GATG&report=gt 00:17:22 notice the huge diurnal temp change 00:17:36 big tit there :) 00:18:00 look at the solar radiation tit 00:18:12 no nipple on that one 00:18:12 got to 570 w?m^2 00:18:22 not bad for january 00:18:23 that's not bad 00:18:31 super clear air 00:18:37 isn't the worldwide average ~1KW? 00:18:52 wee get to about 950 in june 00:18:55 (or 2KW outside the atmosphere) 00:19:02 brb - dinner 00:19:16 yeah I would say 1000 at surface is average 00:19:20 k 00:22:41 that has got to be a record...70 degrees with a dewpoint of 12.....that would beat most deserts 00:23:21 lerman_ has joined #emc 00:24:00 what is the name of those things that req no pilots license... aero lites? 00:35:51 ultralights 00:36:35 good way to get killed... 00:36:53 lol, why? 00:37:13 they sounds great! 00:37:15 to be safe it takes a lot of training I think 00:38:30 still would be fun 00:38:55 you go camping, unpack it take off and enjoy the scenery 00:39:01 I'm not even trained enough to be really safe...and I have thousands of takeoffs and landings 00:39:11 survived engine failure once. 00:39:44 well fly is way fun...of course 00:40:31 awesome for photography too 00:40:35 once you get over the "doesn't work like a car" bit it feels like you just have wings. You forget all about the airplane 00:41:16 "What, you just hit the brakes and step out." Whats the big deal? 00:41:35 little things like this: 00:42:08 on a takeoff or landing run turn the wheel clockwise...and you go.... 00:42:09 left 00:42:27 like a motorcycle 00:43:03 well the controls king of reverse at about 60 knots on light aircraft 00:43:13 it's called flying on the backside 00:43:31 pull on yoke...go down 00:43:45 down? 00:43:48 yup 00:44:10 at higher speeds the opposite thing happens 00:44:21 lol 00:44:31 a big bunch of the training is getting used to that 00:44:56 I bet 00:45:43 after a while you forget about it and think differently 00:46:27 just like all thigns I'd suspect 00:46:38 right 00:47:04 pitch is airspeed. power is climb 00:47:07 kinda 00:48:14 So, gimme the keys to the plane and the avgas card 00:48:31 avgas is really high right now 00:48:33 "We dont need no stinking flightplan!" 00:49:17 after learning the basics you find out something.... 00:49:27 there is nothing to do 00:49:34 you just sit there really 00:49:47 monitoring systems 00:50:06 often pilots fall asleep 00:50:24 that's what "Cruise Control" is for... so you can go to the back of the motorhome and make a sandwich 00:50:33 haha 00:51:29 http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp 00:51:59 so it's kind of weird...you just sit there like a bump on a log...but any second you could hit turbulence and have stuff stick to the ceiling 00:52:19 heh 00:52:33 ha 00:52:54 one of the 3 cars on my short list has radar controlled cruise 00:53:04 it tracks the car in front of you 00:53:25 seriously? 00:53:32 yeah! 00:53:37 but just for speed 00:53:37 jsut for speed though 00:53:43 lol 00:53:56 it locks into a certain numer of carlengths distance 00:54:07 number 00:54:15 ah, 2 second rule 00:54:20 that is the infiniti q45 00:55:14 I need to buy a car as soon as possible...but since I am doing the CPO thing I have to wait for the right one to come along 00:55:30 I monitor them every morning 00:56:30 ...for the last 10 years 00:56:38 the CPO looks good. Car off lease, but a full new car warranty starts when you buy it. 00:56:54 and about half price. 00:57:31 I always bought new cars but this looks better 00:58:32 Lokks new, drives like new, new car warranty. Half price. Works for me. 00:59:57 so the first Lexus Gs 300/420, Infiniti q45, or audi A6 with the right colors and stuff within 150 miles.... 01:00:03 I'll grab it. 01:00:42 cool. 01:00:43 graphite or dark blue outside....tan inside. 01:01:08 My whitewash for filling in the carved didn't turn out too well =( 01:01:18 really 01:01:39 experiment some 01:01:46 Yeah, deep color in the deep creavices, but faded near the surface 01:02:29 try a couple coats 01:02:34 I spray it 01:02:58 dry, then sand off? 01:03:50 also. put some on...let it half dry and get sticky...then put more on....holds the stuff to the sides...works best with sprayinh 01:04:16 buy one of this spray can things with the glass bottle 01:04:45 forgot the name 01:04:55 sprayit or something 01:07:50 the slathering bit with a rag is only done on raised letter stuff 01:08:17 so the whole panel is coated 01:08:33 after carving it's only on the letters 01:09:10 for v carving spray is best 01:09:25 but can be done with a foam brush with care 01:09:36 couple coats if brush 01:14:12 well, off to the music room for a bit 01:29:41 see ya 02:27:22 mrallen has joined #emc 02:28:20 mrallen has quit 03:17:27 lerman_ has quit 03:37:27 axis 1.1.1rc4 released: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01137117659 03:38:44 roltek has joined #emc 03:39:03 roltek has quit 03:46:14 * Jymmm waits till emc2 is released 03:46:28 tired up upgrading every 30 seconds 04:16:19 rc4 is going to be the only release of the evening, I promise. 04:19:07 thanks jepler for keeping up with everything 04:23:07 cradek: no problem 04:23:24 but if you'll excuse me, I have to feed this cat so she'll leave me alone.. 04:41:25 jepler NA, it's not axis releases, but EMC ones 04:57:39 JimHurlburt has joined #emc 05:03:41 has there been an emc release? ;) 05:05:13 Once since Paul did all those in two weeks time. 05:05:21 I think. 05:06:55 ah - the BDI 4.38 release 05:07:04 that's BDI, not emc(1) or emc2 05:07:27 So there's three now?! eeesh 05:07:34 yep 05:08:00 so whats different from emc1 and bdi ? 05:08:27 lots of code reorganization, libnml instead of rcslib ... 05:08:34 builds on kernel 2.6 05:09:12 But all 3 are based upon debian, not RH? 05:09:33 emc(1) and emc2 are source releases, and aren't dependent on a specific distribution 05:09:49 the BDI is currently debian-based 05:09:51 Yeah? Hmmm 05:10:01 * Jymmm likes debian 05:10:06 older ones were RH and morphix, I think 05:10:08 RH is icky 05:10:36 I'm using Ubuntu onn my "big rig", and may try a Gentoo install as well, since Winblows won't even install on that machine 05:10:45 (on a spare hard drive even) 05:10:47 and then two different real time kernels as well, no? 05:10:53 where? 05:11:09 rtlinux and soemthign else? 05:11:18 BDI 4.xx use RTAI only, I think - no RTLINUX 05:11:25 ADEOS / RTAI 05:11:41 Yeah, I jsut can'tt keep up with it all. 05:11:54 * djb_rh takes offense at the "icky" comment! 05:11:57 no problem - you have other things to think about 05:12:05 djb_rh goony goo goo 05:12:13 like - if I tell you some restaurant names, can you tell me if they're any good? :) 05:12:28 SWPadnos Name and location? 05:12:30 (in San Jose) 05:12:34 you've got RH founders hanging around here 05:12:36 don't make me hurt you! 05:12:37 :) 05:12:48 djd say what? 05:12:48 * jepler <-- fedora user, debian user 05:12:59 I like 'em both 05:13:03 19 Market, Vietnamese (400 South first street) 05:13:09 SWPadnos Did you need a list of places or have soem already in mind? 05:13:11 "19 Market" 05:13:16 ah 05:13:22 Jymmm: I was the first tech employee hired by the two guys who started it 05:13:35 they often refer to the three of us and the other two early hires as the founders 05:13:48 I have a list of some places near the convention center, I'd just like to see if they suck or not 05:13:49 I went to work every day to an apartment for the first six months 05:14:17 SWPadnos: I dont do downtown SJ, except Original Joes, nice, food is good, lil pricey. 05:14:18 Marc moved out and three of us took it over with computers until we got thrown out 05:14:25 ok 05:14:41 SWPadnos: I like hole-in-the-walls personally. 05:14:45 can you eat at each of these places in the next couple of months, and let me know how they are? ;) 05:15:03 SWPadnos: Sure, Insert credit card here --> [ ] 05:15:13 I didn't get started with redhat until 3.0.3, pretty late to the party I guess. (before that I was a big fan of MCC, since it was a lite distribution .. 3 or 4 floppies, compared to that monster SLS) 05:15:17 1234 5678 9012 3456 exp 00/99 05:15:21 I'm sure I'll get used to BDI, but I would prefer it to be RH based 05:15:31 SWPadnos Invalid sequence 05:15:42 djb_rh, you should have the knowledge to make an RH-based emc distro (hint hint) 05:15:45 jepler: that's pretty damned early...did you ever use the "redneck" install translation in later versions? 05:15:46 :) 05:15:53 SWPadnos: oh, I'm quite certain that I do 05:15:56 djb_rh: No, but I remember reading about it 05:16:05 I've built more packages than most people have ever friggin used. :) 05:16:15 djb_rh: I would be very excited to see a realtime kernel packaged for fedora. *hint hint* 05:16:16 or installed, even ;) 05:16:20 I'll bet 05:16:24 you ain't getting it from me 05:16:25 :) 05:16:28 awww shucks 05:16:37 Told ya RH sucks =) 05:16:38 you mean I wasted my time typing *hint hint*? 05:16:40 not any time soon, anyway 05:16:47 next time you're bored, maybe 05:16:51 shit, I hate that fucking kernel package 05:17:07 come on, tell us how you really feel 05:17:09 I don't much care for how it evolved 05:17:12 I don't blame you; I looked at it once, and my eyes scabbed over 05:17:28 the spec file uses macros that didn't even exist when I left RH 05:17:29 jepler: Go ahead, you can blame him 05:18:27 I much prefer hardware hacking to software 05:18:40 djb_rh Anythign specific? 05:18:55 well, learning to machine so I can build race car parts 05:18:58 that specific enough? 05:19:05 that's the current thing, anyway 05:19:07 djb_rh oh, that, nm. 05:19:15 you know - it's really annoying when you test and test and test memory, and it never works. but then, when you systematically go through all the BIOS tweaks, you test and test and test, and it never fails. 05:19:44 SWPadnos you using memtest? 05:19:50 yep, repeatedly 05:19:52 I spend most of my time driving race cars, though 05:20:06 or playing with my kids 05:20:07 djd still nm. 05:20:11 :) 05:20:30 djd when you get to hackign with an electron microscope, drop me a note. 05:20:55 heh 05:20:58 sure 05:21:05 djb_rh: I only hope you can live up to Jymmm's high standards. Clearly he sets the bar around here. 05:21:12 clearly! 05:21:15 old cheerios taste like shit, I've decided 05:21:23 (in case anyone is wondering) 05:22:06 I didn't know they ever didn't not taste unlike shit when new either 05:22:25 honey nut cheerios are quite good when fresh 05:22:29 in cold milk 05:22:37 but plain? shit. 05:22:37 I like them, unless they're supposed to have been eaten 15 months ago 05:22:43 lol 05:22:46 yep - that's what I just had 05:22:56 jepler: Na, I just want free satellite 05:23:00 unfortunately, this batch of HNC expired in Oct 04 05:23:22 oh well - back in the back of the cabinet they go ;) 05:23:59 has anyone here done much CPU benchmarking (comparing A64 / Opteron / Athlon XP, etc)? 05:24:24 * Jymmm has never done AMD 05:24:37 jymmm is a bonehead 05:25:07 SWPadnos: I have nfc which is which, they need a better naming convention to be comparable to intel folks 05:25:28 the last Intel CPU I bought (when I had a choice) was a 486DX/25 (overclocked to 33 - w00t!) 05:25:53 I did have to get a couple of Intel based laptops over the years, but that's not necessary any more 05:26:03 like Pentium/A ? 05:26:24 I like the Pentium M cpu's....2M L2 Cache on them 05:26:40 how would you know that unless you studied the Intel chip types? 05:27:09 I know intel, I dont know AMD. (is there an echo in here) 05:27:18 ie, you studied one language, and expect AMD to conform to that language, rather than you learning AMD's language as well 05:27:33 so - you're a bonehead ;) 05:27:35 SWPadnos: I'd love to see some good benchmarks for the various high-end systems used as compile servers with distccd. I have a feeling that my emplyer's 3 year old dual xeon would look slow by now... 05:27:45 likely 05:28:13 I'm just noticing that a relatively high end Opteron isn't "shockingly" faster than an Athlon XP 05:28:32 SWPadnos: aren't the cache sizes different? I haven't really looked at the details. 05:28:44 depends on the workload 05:28:47 yes, the Opteron has 1M per core 05:28:56 anyway, at the high end you double the price and get a 5% performance increase .. or worse 05:29:05 A64FX as well, but A64 is only 512k, I believe 05:29:10 yeah 05:29:22 Shit, I want 8M L2 Cache 05:29:25 raw memory performance (as reported by memtest) is 2.3x as fast on the Opteron (dual Opteron) 05:29:31 my last personal machine is sempron 64, but it feels plenty fast 05:29:41 cache transfer speed is only 144%, L2 is 117% 05:30:04 oh - the L1 caches are the same size on both chips - 128k 05:30:21 I definitely see a performance improvement on the dual Opteron 05:30:33 a full kernel compile (2.6.12 or so) takes around 15 minutes 05:30:34 dang 05:30:45 I missed an HP 16500A for $25 on eBay 05:31:01 with all the modules that are selected by default on Ubuntu 05:31:11 that's a scope mainframe? 05:31:17 or logic analyzer? 05:31:17 or logic analyzer 05:31:21 it can be both 05:31:23 at the same time, even 05:31:30 right - bummer (if it works) 05:31:37 cheapest BIN right now is $160 05:31:43 yeah 05:31:49 any modules in it? 05:31:52 nope 05:32:07 all the modules I'd need can be had for under $300, though 05:32:08 that can be a pain, unless there a re a bunch of those on eBay as well 05:32:13 that's cool 05:32:14 yeah, they're there 05:32:20 pretty regularly, anyway 05:32:25 don't know about right *now* 05:32:45 sucky part is all the decently priced ones now are also on the west coast 05:32:48 that thing is heavy 05:33:07 I've already got a Tek LA 05:33:13 so I probably don't *need* it 05:33:26 I just bought one of these: 05:33:30 http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536897605.536905493/pd.html?cmpid=90419 05:33:34 the MSO6104A 05:34:03 $$$??? 05:34:04 one of these days I'm gonna switch to an IRC client that doesn't split URLs 05:34:05 I'll sell you a 54622D :) 05:34:14 looks nice 05:34:16 yes, roughly 15 thousand of them 05:34:44 SWPadnos how much was the scope? 05:34:53 $15k 05:35:07 how much for the 54622D? 05:35:11 $2k 05:35:35 too much for me 05:35:41 I'm sure it's worth it 05:35:51 I just don't need something that capable 05:35:52 heh - I know it's a bit steep 05:36:01 but I need to pay for the new one, you see ;) 05:36:04 heh 05:36:06 heh.. i'm happy with my little $1k tektronix DSO 05:36:12 what no 99% discount (today only) 05:36:15 icee! 05:36:20 ahoy djb :) 05:36:21 it's actually a good deal for that model, but it is a pretty high end (though not quite fast enough) scope 05:36:55 well, it's been fun, but I gotta work out in the morning 05:36:57 'night 05:36:59 night 05:37:00 see ya 05:37:07 G'Night SWPadnos 05:37:13 har har 05:37:14 cya djb :) 05:37:15 G'Night djb_rh 05:37:50 jepler - is there a compilation task that I could run on the Opteron that would give you an idea of its relative speed? 05:38:06 (like vim or something ;) ) 05:38:41 SWPadnos: tough question, since we probably have a very different gcc version on the different machines 05:38:55 (the current xeon is redhat9 with locally built gcc 3.3 I think) 05:38:59 yep - older usually is faster in that regard 05:39:18 I think I have 3.3 or 3.4 on that machine (booting - I'll check in a sec) 05:39:34 SWPadnos: and since we rely heavily on distcc, the load is probably quite different from a machine that is building locally only 05:40:03 does distcc do any caching? 05:40:07 (mostly running cpp and network activity, I think) 05:40:23 what kind of interconnect do you use? 05:40:28 no, ccache does caching, but we don't use it 05:41:15 100 megabit ethernet to a switch, nothing too beefy. In fact, there's some evidence that the network bandwidth is limiting performance 05:41:39 (we use the 'lzo' option of distcc to compress data to/from the remote machines) 05:41:49 maybe, maybe not - that's enough bandwidth to transfer all of emc2 every second 05:42:00 (I think the checkout I just did was 9M) 05:42:32