00:00:31 I don't consider it spam as long as really try to help folks 00:01:16 I've only been in the CAD/CAM business for 30 years 00:01:20 oh, nah.. :) 00:01:22 it's not spam.. 00:01:32 not if the message contains substance.. 00:01:41 The key is to put real content on your site...not just spin 00:02:17 I have more articles to go on mine as soon as I have time 00:03:06 The scraping and emc bits get a thousand hits a month or so 00:03:36 I think I might have sold my crappy little lathe.. 00:03:54 getting a bigger one? 00:04:22 saving the meehanite chuck.. for building a small cnc lathe.. 00:04:42 I learned on a $125 unimat 00:04:45 it costs more then the lathe.. 00:04:55 (when I was 15 or so) 00:05:07 I have a large lathe at work.. 00:05:48 but I want a small and very precise cnc lathe 00:05:53 My current shop lathe is small but good 00:06:01 1m of bed.. 00:06:12 I just wanted it big enough to do ballscrew ends etc 00:06:22 and with linear rails.. 00:06:55 and a oversized motor.. 00:07:03 with a heap of torque.. 00:07:05 I gave away two Hardinge cnc with burned bandit controls when I moved 00:07:09 sorry now 00:07:16 yeah 00:08:14 they wold have required a third long trip in the truck 00:08:15 I dont need a extremely large lathe.. but it has to be rigid enough to cut hardened steel.. 00:08:20 who's using an atmega in here, that's using it with the free RTOS? 00:08:26 was it you anonimasu? 00:08:38 hm, not with a RTOS 00:08:39 anonimasu, anneal it? 00:08:54 anonimasu, did you use some OS with it? just wondering. 00:08:56 A-L-P-H-A: that is not the point.. 00:09:01 A-L-P-H-A: no.. 00:09:05 was wondering what an os did for an uC. 00:09:12 A-L-P-H-A: multitasking 00:09:18 preemptive multitasking.. 00:09:20 :) 00:09:22 or somthing like that 00:09:23 ahh neat. 00:09:53 A-L-P-H-A: the point was that I want a small lathe rigid enough to cut that.. 00:09:55 :D 00:10:55 Ah...paul...moderator dave chimed in 00:11:00 chimed 00:11:06 ? 00:11:15 on the fred post thing 00:12:00 what did he do? 00:14:12 not sure....seems to think the poster should give more information about what he wants to do 00:14:48 ARGH. 00:14:56 I checked the prices of meehanite cast stuff.. 00:15:29 expensive 00:15:35 yeah 00:15:38 like 600$ 00:16:29 dad said that the chuck was almost 900$ 00:16:29 ;) 00:16:37 Well do like the cultural revolution in '60's china 00:16:43 that's more then the lathe retailed as new.. 00:16:52 :p 00:16:53 a smelter for every family 00:17:07 course all they made was a lot of slag 00:17:16 smelter? 00:17:27 creating cast iron 00:17:34 ah ok 00:18:01 http://www.knuth.de/prod_eng/drehen/cnc/zyklengesteuert/proton460_530.htm 00:18:13 looking 00:18:17 I should just drop the idea of a new car within 4 years and buy that ;) 00:18:44 ouch. I looked at the wrong price.. 00:18:45 :) 00:19:13 nice 00:19:29 the 8 station turrent was like a new:er car. 00:19:32 ;) 00:19:33 I just buy the inexpensive Bison chucks 00:19:52 They seem fine 00:20:08 yeah probably 00:20:20 made in Poland? 00:20:21 he bought it because he was planning on building a lathe many years ago.. 00:20:30 no 00:20:35 I think it's taiwan or somthing like that 00:20:45 let me check 00:21:17 I dont know really 00:23:01 I just know it was super expensive :) 00:23:47 but I need to change it before I sell the lathe 00:24:58 not sure where bison comes from..one site says european but not where or whether it's outsourced 00:25:11 yeah maybe 00:25:39 I have a rotary table from Tiawan that claims to be mehanite 00:25:53 hm, it could be.. 00:26:02 they reverse engineer anything in taiwan.. 00:26:03 :D 00:26:17 but mehanite is a process not a material so who knows 00:26:20 I've seen copied stuff that held higher quality then the part copied.. 00:26:35 err then what it was copied from.. 00:26:37 yup 00:26:39 :D 00:26:53 I dont see why meehanite wouldnt exist in taiwan.. 00:27:02 they do build heaps of machines over there 00:27:32 I dont know about the quality but it seems like it's good 00:27:42 At this point most of my woodworking stuff is tiawan...metal stuff is uk or us 00:28:02 The components for my cnc were mostly German 00:28:27 Japanese rails 00:28:33 THK 00:28:52 :) 00:29:47 The far east woodworking stuff is usually ok...sometimes I put better bearing and other things on them 00:30:56 I checked that $40 spin index I bought for sharpening 00:31:01 chinese 00:31:32 slop in the bore was .005 mm 00:31:35 not bad 00:31:38 not at all 00:31:45 that's far beyond what I can measure 00:31:58 was parallel to base within .015 mm 00:32:22 I have a lab grade plate and square 00:32:59 collet seat was good to abour .01 00:33:10 :) 00:33:11 that was the poorest machined part 00:33:18 that's still good 00:33:24 yes 00:33:37 fine for sharpening router bits 00:33:43 yeah 00:34:11 most people have no idea how hard getting 0.01mm when machining on stuff.. 00:34:48 I think they make those things by lapping a slightly tapered spindle into the housing 00:35:07 the lapping compound breaks down and stops cutting 00:35:15 yep 00:36:05 It is slightly tighter at one end so I suspected that 00:36:48 It is close enough that if you remove the spindle and warm it by holding in your hand it will not fit in the bore 00:36:57 hehe 00:36:59 neat 00:37:08 that's the precision I like when turning parts 00:37:14 yeah 00:37:38 bearing fits are like that 00:37:39 that's about 0.01 00:37:54 I did that on my dub.. on the lathe.. :) 00:37:58 depending on size yeah 00:38:30 I warmed the part with the hands then the bearing slid nicely into it.. 00:39:04 Abec7 bearing work requires about .002 00:39:12 I must hone to get that 00:39:16 hm.. yeah 00:39:17 you cant turn that.. 00:39:28 unless you have a super good lathe.. 00:39:33 not easy even to grind 00:39:43 must really watch temperature 00:39:50 I think you could do it with one of thoose swiss made precision lathes... 00:39:59 I saw some used one on a auction.. 00:40:16 it was like 60 000eur.. 00:40:20 wow 00:40:40 cant remember any brand or anything like that.. 00:41:13 Bearing work is slow for me because I must hone, measure, hone, measure etc 00:41:26 But I can get it done 00:41:30 father said what it was the "mercedes of lathes" when he found it.. 00:41:33 yeah 00:42:34 my aim for the mill is to be able to keep the precision within 0.01 00:42:39 any free CAD package, that's comparable to the polish of autocad [which isn't all that polished to me to begin with] 00:42:44 Putting parts on the lathe collet with the tool post grinder would yirld only about .01- .015 00:42:52 looking to make the complete plunge into linux. 00:42:55 not good enough for some bearings 00:43:06 hm solidworks! 00:43:16 *grins* 00:43:26 free? :) [although, I could go other means] 00:43:39 not really 00:43:45 but it's the greatest cad package there is.. 00:43:45 'ight. 00:43:46 I think¨ 00:43:56 wine+vector ? 00:44:02 I like linux....learned about it because of emc 00:44:12 never tried vector. 00:44:17 wine+autocad don't work well. 00:44:21 wish I knew a bit more about the gnu compiler 00:44:26 hm I learned linux beacuse I wanted to be l33t a couple of years back 00:44:40 A-L-P-H-A: talk to chris about autocad r13 for DOS running under Linux .. he's pretty happy with his current setup 00:44:51 er, cradek 00:44:52 00:45:09 like 6 years ago.. 00:45:17 :) 00:45:18 I hated Autocad r10, and r14.... they were just sooo slow. ut then again, I was running with a pentium back then. 00:45:37 there is also qcad and synergy - Both run under linux. 00:45:50 are any of thoose parametric? 00:45:57 Using 2000 now...it's ok. Really need solidworks 00:45:59 I don't really need parametric. 00:46:08 oh I am just curious :) 00:46:12 though parametric would make my live sooo much nicer. 00:46:20 it's what I love about solidworks.. 00:46:31 I just need fast pretty rendered pictures for clients to see 00:46:37 define -(12mm) and then add a circle as tangent.. 00:47:17 then to move all the holes further from the edge just input how far away from the edge you want em.. 00:47:19 les, rhino + pengiun. they're affordable, as a complete cad package. 00:47:43 I have tried rhino but not penguin 00:47:49 seemed ok 00:47:49 legit routes are beginning to interest me. 00:48:08 yep... 00:48:12 but prices are so horrid 00:48:39 Actually I just remembered...I have money again....how much is a seat of solidworks? 00:48:47 4000eur 00:48:50 heh 00:48:55 ouch 00:48:59 about covers the basic license.. 00:49:01 ;) 00:49:06 oh :( 00:49:09 + you have a yearly licensing fee.. 00:49:11 :/ 00:49:31 but well, considering autocad costs 1100eur.. 00:49:45 cheaper, if you get the trade mags... 00:49:49 being a yearly liscense. 00:50:01 plus you get support with yearly liscense. 00:50:06 I could fly airplanes and play golf a lot for 4000 euro 00:50:08 yeah, but autocad dosent compare to solidworks.. 00:50:18 true 00:50:32 I found some program that was similiar to solidowrks 00:50:36 also parametric.. 00:50:39 hold on a bit let me find it 00:52:49 cant find it right now 00:52:59 there was a program that was similiar to solidworks I found a while back.. 00:53:03 that I tried the demo off.. 00:53:07 it was quite good 00:53:11 and it didnt cost 1/10 00:53:20 or well 500$ maybe.. 00:53:32 same file format? 00:53:59 no 00:54:28 but I'll look what it was when I go to work and unpack my other laptop 00:55:10 These days I guess I could do 4000 euro for solidworks but I could think of a lot of ways to have more fun with that kind of cash 00:55:35 yeah 00:55:58 but if customers expect it you have to have it 00:56:03 * anonimasu nods 00:56:34 depends on how much engineering vs woodwork I want to do 00:56:46 yeah 01:18:31 how do you intend to build the paint robot? 01:28:06 anonimasu, what os are you using for uC? 01:28:09 and what uC? 01:28:24 at90s8515.. 01:28:32 and atmega(somthing) 01:28:48 4,8,etc... cool. 01:28:51 yeah 01:28:55 any OS on them? 01:28:56 I cant remember wich right now.. 01:28:58 nope.. 01:29:05 oh straight programming on them. 01:29:07 I see. 01:29:10 I usually dont have a need for multitaskin.. 01:29:32 SWP_eating, is awesome with AVR code... whiddled my code from 200 down to 122. I whiddled it from 240 to 200... 01:29:32 g 01:29:45 hehe 01:29:54 I could probably write somthing to handle that.. 01:30:30 well. it was just a stepper driver 01:31:04 I mean multitasking.. 01:31:46 :) 01:31:57 but I havent been fiddling too much wuth AVR's.. 01:31:59 with.. 01:32:05 SWP_eating, says I should put a turn off switch, to turn off the transistors. 01:32:21 since work takes too much energy 01:32:27 heh 01:32:32 to keep em cool? 01:33:01 or to stop them if somting fscks.. 01:33:18 keep cool, and not melt. 01:33:41 hm.. 01:33:46 that's why you have heatsinks.. 01:33:57 on a stepper motor? 01:34:01 all heatsink manufacturers state how many W of heat they disspasiate.. 01:34:12 oh current reduction.. 01:34:17 yeah. 01:34:28 yeah.. 01:34:45 current reduction for the coils. 01:35:17 you could do that with a offset voltage.. 01:35:28 for the transistors.. 01:36:00 off set with what? 01:36:09 the witha potentiometer.. 01:36:26 dunno how I'd wire that up. 01:36:33 me neither.. 01:36:37 heh 01:36:59 let me google a bit.. 01:37:04 I was just going to use the two internal timers, and jsut make them turn off when they hit like 5ms. 01:37:19 anonimasu, cool. if you figure it out, that'd be awesome 01:38:03 make the voltage be at a certain level always when you turn off the motion.. 01:38:20 I think that causes the steppers to lock up 01:40:01 I am unsure if thats how it works.. 01:40:33 I need a current limiter, not a voltage reg. 01:40:44 yea.. 01:40:47 ofcourse.. 01:40:47 so I'd need to have a transistor like resistor. 01:41:38 you shouldnt have any power when not running the stepper or should you? 01:41:50 with your current setup 01:42:25 well, for my use, it really doesn't matter too much, as there wouldn't be much of a need for holding torque. 01:43:39 hm dont you turn off everything out when you turn off your output at the avr? 01:44:13 but it should have enough amps to hold the position 01:45:58 a idle output and a gate to turn on a transistor to hold everything still.. 01:46:11 you understand what I mean right? 01:46:29 yeah, so just to lower the current to a holding current. 01:46:33 yep.. 01:46:48 so it's be like turn down the voltage to whatever it was regulated for. 01:47:08 and with the gate you put whatever holding voltage you want through the transistors.. 01:47:12 so like if the stepper was 4V 1.2Amp. I should use 4V, when I'm just holding it. 01:47:28 voltage & amperage follow 01:47:29 s 01:47:48 v=ir that's all, or am I missing something that I don't knwo cause I'm not an elec. eng. 01:47:55 nope.. 01:48:12 but voltage and amperage always follows eachother.. 01:48:14 : 01:48:15 :) 01:48:28 ofcourse you can current limit with a resistor but that'd be a awky solution 01:48:46 a gate and a trimpotentiometer.. and wires to your transistors 01:48:54 after the diode on each avr pin.. 01:48:58 ahh! 01:49:08 ->-|-(TRANSISTOR)-OUT 01:49:19 so like, turn off the coil transistor, and turn on the holding torque transistor. 01:49:31 you use the same.. 01:49:46 when you turn off your outputs the voltage from the avr (5V goes down to 0) 01:50:06 and the gate latches the 5v into the avr onto the trimpot, where you limit it.. 01:50:11 and throw it back to the transistors.. 01:50:40 and use them for holding it aswell.. 01:50:47 so you dont need another setup of transistors.. 01:51:27 :) 01:51:30 following? 01:51:56 if you want I can draw it up since I have my webcam over here.. 01:54:07 :) 01:59:53 * anonimasu yawns 01:59:55 goodnight 02:00:54 anonimasu, sorry reading now. 02:01:17 anonimasu, yeah, draw it up. if you wouldn't mind. 02:02:32 ok 02:02:36 just a sec. 02:02:37 thanks 02:03:37 I dont know the symbol for the gate.. so I'll draw it as a switch. 02:03:57 'ight 02:04:16 isn't a gate like two lines in, in line out, on a elongated dome? 02:04:28 no idea.. 02:04:29 of is that a triangle as a gate? [thought that was just misc IC] 02:04:32 yeah 02:04:37 of=or :) 02:04:38 thats a opamp 02:04:41 yeah 02:04:46 somthing like that.. 02:08:35 soon done 02:10:02 done now.. 02:10:11 'ight 02:10:14 dcc? 02:10:58 web.. 02:11:07 'ight 02:11:09 works as well. 02:13:31 its very tiny. 02:13:50 :) 02:14:00 is that what all the girls say to you? 02:14:01 :D 02:14:02 heh 02:14:17 yeah 02:14:34 www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap.jpg 02:14:52 http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap.JPG 02:14:52 err 02:14:54 like that 02:15:10 I drew it like a relay instead since that's the only thing that I know of :) 02:15:30 ask while I am here.. 02:15:39 hmm... I'll figure it out, I don't see anything really... just a blur. 02:15:46 damn... 02:15:47 heh 02:15:48 wait. 02:15:48 not in any hurry. :) 02:16:40 I'll draw a example for one channel in a txt.. 02:17:38 okay 02:22:39 done.. 02:23:03 it'd be nice to have a java whiteboard program. :) 02:23:27 like two people log onto a website [maybe iwth a password for the chan], and then whiteboards to share the info 02:23:27 yeah 02:23:35 there's somthing like that somwhere.. 02:23:38 I have my wacom here.. 02:23:38 :) 02:23:43 although it's better to draw in realtime.. 02:23:44 nice. 02:24:17 gezr has joined #emc 02:24:22 hey gezr 02:24:28 howdy A-L-P-H-A 02:25:04 http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap2.jpg 02:25:45 hmm 02:25:48 does that make more sense? 02:25:50 scifi friday is on :) 02:26:59 W1 - W4, are the phase coils? 02:27:07 w1-w4 are the outputs from the avr.. 02:27:10 gezr, watched everything I want already. 02:27:13 ahh 02:27:19 the thing that's called transistors goes to the transistors.. 02:27:27 :D 02:27:32 however you did wire em.. 02:27:33 :9 02:27:34 :P 02:27:56 when you turn idle off you will out the current through the variable resistor.. 02:28:06 and into the transistor amps of yours.. 02:28:25 and output as much current as the reistor specifies.. 02:28:37 voltage/current.. 02:29:10 the diodes are there so you wont kill your avr.. 02:29:26 or get any power to the wrong transistor.. 02:30:43 err idle on.. 02:30:48 damn I am tired.. 02:30:48 :) 02:30:55 A-L-P-H-A: there? 02:31:05 here 02:31:20 no problem. 02:31:22 go to sleep. 02:31:23 chat tomorrow. 02:32:43 ah dont worry 02:32:46 did you get what I mean? 02:32:57 I see it, but I don't really know how it works. 02:33:14 you're sending out the entire thing to ALL the transistors though. that's the problem. 02:33:20 no it isnt.. 02:33:20 :) 02:33:25 this is how I have them wired up so far. 02:33:25 sec. 02:33:30 ok.. 02:33:58 http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html 02:34:07 except I'm using an 90s2313 instead of a pic 02:34:16 yeah.. 02:34:26 after the resistor you should have your diode.. 02:34:27 > 02:34:30 ->- 02:34:54 ~~~~ --|>|--- 02:34:54 there's really no problem with it :9 02:35:01 yeah 02:35:13 I know what you mean... I could have a 1n48** in there. 02:35:16 wouldn't hurt. 02:35:18 --|>|-(X)-(transistor) 02:35:27 where x is where you connect the wires.. to.. 02:35:34 whats the prob with that? 02:35:59 see with your diagram, it's telling all the transistors to go off. 02:36:25 go off? 02:36:36 I'm thinking like this: 02:37:06 you could put a OR gate on each chanel 02:37:26 whatchya making? 02:37:30 have a transistor where I have the 12VDC motor pwr is ... and switch that on/off, or another transistor that goes off/on with the holding voltage. 02:37:38 gezr, cheapy stepper drive for fun projects. 02:38:01 yes but there's really no difference between your solution and what I said.. 02:38:02 unc5894b about 3 bucks each 02:38:11 the only thing is that you dont have 3 extra transistors.. 02:38:14 5804 that is, but they have replaced it 02:38:16 but use the ones you have already 02:38:16 :) 02:38:17 gezr, won't work for 5amps. :) 02:38:22 ah 02:38:45 gezr, I just need 1.2amps, but the transistors I have are good for 5amps. 02:38:49 i have a schematic that uses 2 ics, and a bank of transistors, its a bit more for all the parts 02:39:09 uses tip120 darlington drivers 02:39:31 my stepper driver could cost like, $15 total, for a half stepping, 80V - 5amp driver. :) 02:39:50 gezr I use tip121. but bigger bro to the tip120 02:39:58 ah yeah 02:40:06 tip122 even bigger bro 02:40:27 A-L-P-H-A: if you have io's to spare you can build it like that for all channels.. 02:40:31 and have a idle for each.. 02:40:40 but without more transistors :) 02:42:08 I have 2 io to spare. 02:42:35 ok 02:42:45 well I'd go for what I said if you need a holding current.. 02:43:01 since you use what you have already.. :) 02:43:02 4 (step/dir), and (8 transistors) = two stepper motor driver. [I have 15 io] So I acatually have 3 io left. 02:43:48 see anonimasu, I dont' get how you're giving it that. 02:43:52 that = current. 02:44:06 if you turn on that 'relay' symbol, you're turning on ALL the transistors. 02:44:19 which means it's feeding current to _ALL_ the coils. 02:44:32 yes, but the current is limited to what you have the resistor seton.. 02:44:34 which would change the position of the stepper. 02:45:00 err resistor(trim potentiometer) 02:45:12 it wont change the position of you energize all coils.. 02:45:23 it would move 02:45:30 foösunyvå23r2qä0c4 02:45:32 V = IR... 24VDC / 1.2A = 20 ohms. But with like how many watts do I need? P = IR^2 [right?] 02:45:49 you limit how much power you put on them via the resistor.. 02:45:52 how much and stuff like that would be a factor of the current position 02:46:04 the "idle" current.. 02:46:16 if you energize all coils, the stepper is stiff.. 02:46:31 it will jerk into that stiff position 02:46:33 anonimasu, yes. but I also want to not have the coils burn out/melt. 02:46:39 yeah, that's what I thought too. 02:46:43 gezr, yeah, that's what I thought too. 02:47:03 anonimasu, I don't think you're thing would work. 02:47:16 A-L-P-H-A: well, you can do it on each coil. 02:47:24 you will have on coil energized the moment the other 3 come on, at that point, it is unpredictable which direction it will rotate 02:47:32 one 02:47:47 anonimasu, I think my method would be a little better. 02:48:16 the only true way to "break/hold" a motor is to have a break installed, 02:48:26 so that when after a timer overflows, switch off the main current, and switch on the sticker rated Voltage to the motor. 02:49:05 gezr, not looking for a BREAK, just looking for a holding current, to just makesure something down's start going backwards. 02:50:04 yeah you might be right.. 02:50:23 then just a circut to limit the current @ whatever 1 2 3 4 combo you have is enough, 02:50:25 that rated voltage should be at 100% duty cycle. 02:50:42 * anonimasu really really hates steppers 02:50:45 I'll draw it out, ifyou guys want. 02:50:55 steppers suck for the exact stuff 02:51:06 I am never putting a stepper on my machine ever again.. 02:51:18 you just want to be able to keep the thing in a position, and keep it from burning up 02:51:29 just saving up for 3 new servodrives and another servo for my z axis.. and a vital card.. 02:52:27 hey gezr. 02:52:27 hm, yeah you need to reduce the current for each axis if you want to do that.. 02:52:30 like you said.. 02:53:31 paul_c : howdy 02:54:21 goodnight 02:54:40 buggerit - nearly 3AM again. 02:54:44 yeah.. 02:54:56 my head stopped working 4 hours ago :/ 02:55:20 http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives/001064.php 02:56:04 http://lmwatts.com/v-web/b2/ <- Is that a bottle of Tums in the background? 02:56:21 Don't work yourself to death, Les! 02:56:35 got a photo. 02:56:37 posting up now. 02:56:59 tums rule 02:57:58 http://www.lloydleung.com/gallery/stepper_driver/ 03:02:34 I think emc can directly drive 3 transistor banks, without the need of an ic to determine where to send the pulse, I cant remember though 03:02:51 gezr, that's phase driving. 03:03:09 this way, instead of 4 pins of use on a parallel port, I can use 2. 03:03:20 sames me pins on my parallel port. 03:03:22 saves 03:03:43 I was just remembering, cool idea :) 03:03:59 primetive idea, but works ifyou don't need many pins. 03:04:18 that's 12 pins gone, versus 6 if you use a controller. 03:41:15 paul_c has left #emc 03:49:48 picnet has quit 04:34:26 les: anonimasu: the CAD program - was it CadMAX? I like it (though someone like JMK or Robin_SZ couldn't stand it) 04:34:32 SWP_eating is now known as SWPadnos 04:42:31 hi SWPadnos 04:52:30 Hi there 04:52:44 (sorry - fiddling with motors and the USC 04:52:45 ) 05:29:44 picnet has joined #emc 06:12:37 danfalck has quit 06:19:59 danfalck has joined #emc 06:28:51 picnet has quit 07:19:11 Jymmm has joined #emc 07:30:17 picnet has joined #emc 09:06:46 alex_joni has joined #emc 09:15:18 picnet has quit 09:15:21 morning 09:15:32 [01:20:15] morning 09:15:59 [11:23] morning 09:16:27 ah 09:16:30 * alex_joni is playing with Synergy 09:16:48 very nice.. what I've seen so far 09:16:50 it's not bad, be careful with it 09:16:55 no security 09:17:06 what do you mean? 09:17:30 if you dont have a secure lan you can get hacked easily 09:17:44 I'm behind a firewall 09:17:51 does it open any ports? 09:18:09 of course silly, how do you think it works =) 09:18:29 don't think we're talking about the same Synergy 09:18:31 this one's a CAD/CAM package 09:19:19 ah... http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ 09:20:36 ;) 09:20:58 the CAD/CAM package is great 09:21:01 2D/3D 09:22:12 $ ? 09:23:21 http://www.webersys.com/ 09:30:53 picnet has joined #emc 09:46:00 * alex_joni adds talking to websys later to his todo list 09:46:58 vasquez has joined #emc 09:53:26 wo ist Behle? 09:54:33 picnet has quit 10:11:14 Jymmm has quit 11:00:57 ? 11:01:06 hey an0n 11:02:06 good morning 11:02:16 how are you doing today? 11:02:44 pretty ok 11:04:11 did you have any link to some programming examples with nml? 11:04:30 let me check 11:04:48 the easier the better 11:04:49 :) 11:06:49 http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html 11:08:30 very nice 11:08:39 I can't access isd.mel.nist.gov though... 11:08:43 ;) 11:08:55 why not? 11:08:56 does it work for you? 11:08:59 yes 11:09:07 if not.. here's a mirror: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/mrao/NMLcpp.html 11:09:12 no ideea ;) 11:09:12 want me to grab a copy of it for you? 11:09:17 * alex_joni is getting up 11:09:23 nah.. I have it locally 11:09:30 and I've read it a few times 11:09:35 or do you hvaeok 11:10:10 is the resume function still missing in emc2? 11:10:36 resume? 11:10:46 yeah when you stop a progam in the middle 11:10:47 no ideea,... never used it ;) 11:11:01 ok, it dosent seem to work :) 11:11:01 :-P 11:11:18 you stop? or you pause te program? 11:11:21 I am thinking about building a feed override knob 11:11:27 because stop means stop 11:11:31 esc to abort and then resume the program.. 11:11:37 and pause lets you resume it later on 11:11:49 abort can't be resumed.. afaik 11:11:52 ah ok 11:11:53 :) 11:12:13 that's why it's called abort ;) 11:13:39 you know what would be cool? 11:13:49 if they could build goggles to see radio waves 11:14:01 eah¨ 11:14:02 hehe 11:15:25 I'd buy a pair of those 11:17:00 hm, I need to patch my laptop with RTAI.. 11:17:05 so I can compile that stuff on it 11:17:16 right ;) 11:17:19 and play around without having the machine near me.. 11:17:50 no network to the machine? 11:17:57 not yet 11:18:02 maybe on this afternoon 11:18:04 :) 11:19:05 I need a feed override knob 11:19:06 ;) 11:19:35 that's already programmed 11:19:53 oh, but that dosent really help me learn nml :) 11:21:18 feedslider.cc 11:21:31 inside emc1/src/emctask/ 11:21:42 ok 11:21:49 I run emc2 11:21:59 doesn't matter ;) 11:22:00 but I'll have a look at it :) 11:22:05 it connects to NML 11:22:14 will work with emc2 too 11:22:20 I wonder if I could force the PLC's to do nml 11:22:24 ;) 11:23:33 or if writing somthing to interface with nml would be quicker 11:24:04 I think it would be quicker 11:24:09 and mroe flexible 11:24:09 more 11:24:28 probably 11:26:10 brb 11:26:20 brb going to have a shower and the go out and play with the mill 11:31:35 picnet has joined #emc 11:36:34 paul_c has joined #emc 11:37:00 g'morning paul_c 11:37:09 or.. good day ;) 11:40:07 g'day sport. 11:43:21 what's up? 11:43:41 I finished downloading all the ISO's .. they are now on my site.. 11:44:07 BDI-4.17 is under test 11:44:10 I'll do some more work on the download page... I think it's ok for starters 11:44:12 cool 11:46:58 I started learing a bit about debian.. 11:47:10 but I still feel more at home on my SuSE... 11:48:38 I know how you feel... 11:48:57 I used to like RedHat for a long while. 11:49:10 anyways... I gotta go away from SuSE 11:49:50 I don't like what Novell makes of it 11:49:50 that's why I jumped on the debian train 11:56:56 Synergy is great... I gave it a go 11:58:21 Synergy isn't a Debian only thing - You could use it on almost any computer.. 11:58:34 well I actually use it on doze 11:58:45 websys hooked me up with a package 12:12:01 * alex_joni goes to grab a bite 12:12:05 leter 12:12:06 later 12:12:37 alex_joni has left #emc 12:27:44 vasquez has quit 12:29:33 picnet has quit 13:07:11 alex_joni has joined #emc 13:27:20 pretty quiet in here 13:28:19 * paul_c is finishing off the S526 driver. 13:34:20 [Global Notice] Hi all. Welcome to FOSDEM participants! Please stop by #fosdem .... and if you're at the conference look for OpenDarwin, GNUStep, Wesnoth, openMosix, ubuntu, classpath, KDE, Debian, Gentoo, OpenBSD, LugWV, GNU/kFreeBSD, GNU.nl, and introspector and other participants from around freenode! 13:35:01 [Global Notice] Conference channel for KDE: #KDE-fosdem 13:35:58 [Global Notice] If you've got FOSDEM announcements, please /msg lilo .... and have a great conference! 13:37:23 nice... 13:37:27 * alex_joni is just wasting time 13:37:37 I need to make a new presentation CD 13:37:47 and I need to include some webpages for that... 13:38:05 but php bugs me... I need to download a complete site 13:38:24 that uses php and variables... so I need to download combinations of variables.. and that sux 13:48:31 picnet has joined #emc 13:53:23 iab 13:53:36 hey a0n 13:53:38 hey 13:53:38 an0n 13:53:41 I have net into the shop now 13:53:45 cool 13:53:55 you can remote control your mill now 13:53:59 yeah :) 13:54:29 tried running the GUI remotely? 13:54:34 no 13:54:34 * paul_c spots a condition that could cause trouble with some encoder cards.... 13:54:38 I'll run xwin32 13:54:40 it's better.. 13:54:48 how about ssh -x ? 13:54:55 I am on windows.. 13:54:55 : 13:54:59 paul_c: only on S526 ? 13:55:03 on windows too 13:55:10 putty and Cygwin 13:55:15 I dont like cygwin 13:55:20 why not? 13:55:24 I like xwin32.. it's flawless 13:55:59 :) 13:56:14 but it dosent seem like I have net there yet 13:56:30 ? (192.168.0.31) at 00:10:4b:9c:60:7f on rl0 [ethernet] 13:59:16 alex_joni: The condition could affect many counter cards, not just the S526 13:59:28 care to detail? 13:59:35 an0n: xwin32 is not free... 14:00:02 Imagine you have an overflow flag for each counter... 14:00:35 and the actual count is latched on the read of the first word... 14:01:05 right 14:01:26 what happens if the counter rolls over between the time you latch the data and read the RO flag ? 14:01:28 so as you latch, the overflow gets set 14:01:56 doesn't the RO flag get latched along with the counter? 14:02:07 would seem a sensible thing to do... 14:02:10 Not that I can see. 14:02:17 bugger 14:02:41 Would imagine it would be the same for 7166 based cards too. 14:03:20 don't think they have an RO flag 14:03:31 err..they have one.. but don't think it gets read 14:04:42 alex_joni: I know 14:04:58 well. then you can't compare it to Cygwin/X 14:05:01 brb. 14:13:58 websys2 has joined #emc 14:14:16 alex - were you looking for me? 14:15:39 hey websys... 14:15:43 yes... 14:15:48 got my mail? 14:15:52 Just saw your email 14:16:11 was that supposed to happen? 14:16:27 no - don't know where it went wrong 14:16:47 could I help debug? 14:17:23 I'm trying to get a new code but I'm not at the office right now - trying to do it remotely 14:19:38 iab 14:19:40 it works now 14:19:47 I switched 2 cables in the TP 14:20:18 right 14:20:48 now I need a name for it.. 14:22:14 call it Draal 14:22:18 haha 14:22:23 my main box is sentinel 14:23:32 I'll name it when I am tired.. that makes for a interesting name 14:25:36 :) 14:27:05 agentSmith 14:27:16 what's a good plunge speed when milling plastics that burns easily? 14:27:26 err feed.. 14:27:40 maybe 5mm/min 14:27:42 290cm/min 14:27:42 err 50 14:27:45 or more.. 14:28:08 you need to be done before it starts to gain temperature 14:28:09 lol 14:28:24 alex_joni: 290cm min ;) 14:28:25 lol 14:28:39 150 it is.. 14:29:13 I have no data for this plastic since it's scrap.. 14:29:27 maybe higher ,) 14:31:14 * anonimasu nods 14:32:23 I cut at 500mm/min and it dosent heat up too much 14:32:46 I was talking cm ;) 14:34:07 my machine dosent do that speed yt 14:34:10 yet ;) 14:34:19 my next machine will. 14:34:22 *grins* 14:34:47 alex_joni: I am starting to gain bad habits.. I'll never be able to buy a new car, if this keeps up 14:35:13 lol 14:35:22 large-ish mill + robot to go with it.. 14:36:15 right 14:36:26 and a robette to go with the robot 14:37:32 hehe 14:37:46 anyway I'll be test milling this part :) 14:43:21 paul_c: did you hear that Zathras died? 14:58:53 Zathras is still alive, just being very quiet at the moment. 14:59:11 or do you mean the actor ? 15:01:34 yes.. the actor 15:11:19 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): DIO routines done - Also use the watchdog timer that gets a kick each time the DACs are written. The relay o/p should be part of the safety system when the 526 card is used. 15:16:24 picnet has quit 15:26:32 websys2 has left #emc 15:39:19 morning ya'll 15:39:39 morning 15:40:01 hello 15:52:57 hey SWPadnos 15:53:05 hey there 15:53:13 how's life? 15:53:23 morning, pre-caffeiene :) 15:53:33 right 15:53:36 :) 15:53:50 It's funny - I had never used IRC before a couple of weeks ago (for EMC) 15:53:58 I think it's saving me money 15:54:03 IRC? 15:54:05 less time for eBay :) 15:54:09 lol 15:54:23 I'm looking for a Tapmatic 70x or similar tapper 15:55:01 They're pretty expensive for me 15:56:03 hmmm ;) 15:56:11 anybody used /etc/issue ? 15:56:22 not me 15:56:42 for ? 15:57:06 issue I dont think can be changed, its created at boot, Im not sure, cause I cant remember 15:57:20 custom logon screen 15:57:37 http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/stable/postlfs/logon.html 15:57:46 thx.. reading it now 15:59:10 hm.. 15:59:13 it worked nicely.. 15:59:18 although emc does loose it's position. 15:59:31 good thing robin ain't around 15:59:32 after it's ran a program somtimes.. 15:59:38 he would have slapped you silly 15:59:45 me? 15:59:52 till you loose your senses :D 16:00:32 the part came out nicely although the surface finish sucked.. 16:00:42 hmm.. bummer 16:00:46 might have been because I took a 2cm cut at 500mm/min 16:00:59 when do you see that emc loses it's position? 16:01:06 after the program is completed.. 16:01:17 I'll be right back - I recently reinstalled Mozilla, and I need to restart for the extensions to come back. 16:01:18 and I go back to 0,0,0 manually 16:01:23 do you have a G0X0Y0Z0? 16:01:27 SWPadnos has quit 16:01:35 they move.. 16:01:39 after the program is completed.. 16:01:53 I coded a program for facing my part.. and after it was finished it lost its position. 16:02:02 after m30 16:03:37 z-5 16:03:41 g90 16:03:41 m30 16:03:57 after that it put z to 50 16:04:02 what's G90? 16:04:13 absolute mode.. 16:04:19 g91 is incremental 16:04:56 try G92.2 16:05:06 what does that do? 16:05:14 picnet has joined #emc 16:05:22 cancel offset coordinate systems 16:05:29 ah I should.. 16:05:34 but it shouldnt enable itself.. 16:05:34 SWPadnos has joined #emc 16:05:34 :) 16:05:41 right 16:05:48 an0n: did you post your nc file? 16:05:52 somewhere? 16:06:04 alex_joni: it didnt do the same thing the second thing I ran it.. 16:06:06 time.. 16:06:16 hmmm... 16:06:31 mauybe I should grab a newer cvs version of emc.. 16:06:33 emc2.. 16:06:39 and see if it happens again.. 16:07:03 your emc2 ain't older than a few months... 16:07:09 so it shouldn't do that 16:07:29 its from last week.. 16:07:46 no one touched emc2 deepdown code in some months now 16:09:01 not in the main trunk, anyway... 16:09:14 Some heavy work going on in a branch ;) 16:09:27 hehe 16:09:29 paul_c: is there supposed to be a ppmcio driver for non-RT I/O with the USC? 16:09:36 right.. but that's emc1 16:09:40 so it doesn't count 16:10:45 SWPadnos: Probably, but there are better ways of implimenting one than the route Jon took. 16:10:50 I should look what it says in the debug when it happens 16:11:13 I'm just wondering how to get a "machine on" output from his card. 16:11:47 I've got the output index set, but I don't think my I/O is getting to his driver (bridgeportio shouldn't wiork) 16:13:31 You are correct, bridgeportio won't work. 16:13:53 I noticed that there are ppmc object files in the bdi-4 build, but there's no final ppmcio driver 16:14:20 (or at least, nothing marked executable) 16:14:51 if it ins't in plat/realtime/bin it isn't an exe 16:14:59 right. 16:15:24 * anonimasu yawns 16:15:27 maybe it's a .com ? 16:15:34 .bat 16:15:40 if it's not an .exe 16:15:53 .brick 16:17:23 I wonder what I should do now.. 16:17:42 there are several ppmcmod* in the src directory 16:18:03 cat them ;) 16:18:15 cat ppmcmod* > ppmc.brick 16:18:21 mill somthing more perhaps.. 16:18:23 chmod +x ppmc.brick 16:18:29 and run away 16:18:43 well - since ppmcmod.ko has no elf header, I don't think it'll run :) 16:19:06 insmod it 16:19:22 maybe I will ;) 16:19:25 if it's .ko it should be a kernel module 16:20:02 true - should be - has unknown symbols 16:20:13 I probably need some other modules loaded first 16:24:25 paul_c: seen Mariss' latest mail announcing G2003? 16:25:30 alex_joni: Woohoo! I saw that this morning 16:25:54 yeah.. we should start an EMC driver for it ;) 16:27:32 knock, knock, anyone home? 16:27:40 Who's there? 16:28:05 hello terry 16:28:16 SWPadnos, hello, would you happen to know what the status of step-nc is in emc/emc2? 16:28:27 nope :) 16:28:41 (I'm not even sure I know what it is :) ) 16:28:45 narnia: afaik there is no step-nc support in emc/emc2 16:28:51 SWPadnos, would you happen to know who may know? 16:28:59 iirc it's a modernized version of gcode 16:29:27 alex_joni, yes, sort of. 16:29:34 terry, did you 16:29:42 get any reply about BRLcad 16:29:46 from Fred? 16:30:18 danfalck, hello, long time no read. how goes it? 16:30:43 SWPadnos: it's an nc-file in a different dialect than gcode (defined after gcode, has a lot of improvements, more standardisation, etc) 16:30:47 danfalck, i have not heard back from fred. 16:30:48 good. Things are starting to look good here. The weather's nice 16:31:26 narnia: would you like to do some CAD/CAM chat over on #sagcad? 16:32:09 danfalck, what does #sagcad cover? 16:32:25 nothing much, just a placeholder that we created. 16:32:50 right -STEP - there was some discussion of adding STEP output to synergy or brl-cad recently; 16:34:04 hang on i need to reboot this computer. was running some java code last night and now the computer is really slow. brb 16:34:23 narnia has left #emc 16:34:40 SWPadnos: http://www.step-nc.org/ 16:34:46 rm f `locate *java*` 16:35:05 lol 16:37:11 is step open source? 16:38:27 it's an ISO-standard 16:38:43 don't think it's open source 16:40:44 narnia has joined #emc 16:42:13 okay, that is much better. 16:42:55 did you follow paul_c's advice? ;-) 16:43:40 alex_joni, who are you asking? 16:44:14 narnia: paul_c made a joke (but I think it was after you left): rm f `locate *java*` 16:44:44 alex_joni, good advice. 16:45:11 that would be a little drastic 16:45:16 narnia, sometimes it's a necessary evil ;) (java that is) 16:45:22 you'd get rid of photos of the java coast 16:45:29 and all those coffee-related files :) 16:45:45 SWP: you still have such files? 16:45:59 well - no, but it could suck for someone who does :) 16:46:13 (I'd hate to think of coffee-related files being deleted :) ) 16:46:21 narnia: is there an downloadable version of the step-nc standard? 16:46:43 SWP: I don't drink coffee.. so I couldn't care less ;) 16:47:01 heathen :) 16:47:25 Programmer: n.: "A machine which converts caffeiene to code" 16:47:58 * alex_joni grabs a byte.. 16:50:42 Yay... Got space on the CD for the remaining tools and libs to compile the bdi-4 branch. 16:50:56 cool. what had to go? 16:51:12 nothing. 16:51:18 samba-doc ;) 16:51:19 even better :) 16:51:53 and it still fits on to a 74min disk (at least I hope it does..) 16:52:44 However, there is no way I can sqeeze the extra libs in to compile axis. 16:53:03 how about an 90 min disk? 16:53:33 just remember where this CD ends up - Not all users are in Europe or USA. 16:54:00 and 90min cds are not available outside US & Europe? 16:54:03 some places, even a 74min disk costs a day's wage. 16:54:13 really??? 16:54:24 over here it's cheaper than a floppy 16:54:33 strange.. 16:54:55 do you have any idea how many users there are in south Asia ? 16:55:09 billions 16:55:23 and how many use EMC 16:55:32 at least 274 :) 16:55:46 no ideea.. I give up 16:55:55 and the average wage of all 274 would be ? 16:56:03 2,10 ;) 16:56:10 total of about $1.98 / week :( 16:56:31 it would probably be rather high, those in asia who have things such as computers probably have a good income 16:56:33 hm.. 16:56:42 I dont think thoose people have computes 16:56:50 don't forget net access for downloading the iso 16:56:51 high compared to say a farmer 16:56:54 computers able to run kde.. let alone emc.. 16:56:58 you can't do that on a dialup 16:57:29 but hey.. I agree with you paul (given these constraints, it's best to keep it under 74 min) 16:57:32 even a high earner in India probably grosses less than $5,000 p.a. 16:58:06 paul_c : yeah, I dont konw what is considered middle class over there. 16:58:28 they have that cast system in place still pretty much dont they? 16:58:33 anyone on more than $2,000 p.a. 16:58:58 yes 16:59:00 they do 16:59:10 how much does that compare to a brittish pound? 16:59:14 or the euro? 16:59:18 well.. medium wage is about 2-300 in romania 16:59:20 btw, there are hardly any internet in india.. 16:59:22 per month 16:59:32 in the high tech district yes.. 16:59:36 euro that is 16:59:37 but in the other parts of the country no.. 16:59:40 $1 ~= £1 16:59:43 $1 ~= £2 16:59:49 fskit... 16:59:55 $2 ~= £1 17:00:04 Got it right in the end.. 17:00:05 right 17:00:14 1.5 euro = 1 quid 17:00:32 coo... as much as that ? 17:01:13 about 55000 lei = 1 quid ;) 17:01:23 that's out official currency 17:01:26 our 17:04:12 anyone got an ideea where mysql stores passwords? 17:07:45 in a db 17:08:04 I think, I cant remember, I used to use phpmyadmin to set stuff up 17:08:21 right.. thx 17:09:15 Imperator_ has joined #emc 17:09:36 im not trying to be a smartarsh, I really think that it uses a db to keep "its" info in 17:09:49 right .. thx ;) 17:10:01 I found it.. (it was really a ty) 17:10:02 Hi all 17:10:08 Hey Martin 17:10:17 what's up ? 17:10:21 Imperator_ : howdy 17:11:17 Imperator_: how's the mill coming along? 17:11:28 ähh 17:11:41 ;) 17:11:41 it's still vituell 17:12:06 virtual 17:12:32 and yours ? 17:12:45 pre-virtual 17:12:52 :-) 17:13:04 not even a virtual fetus yet 17:13:14 yesturday we repaired our Digma 17:13:55 it damaged it's metall cover of the linear bearings 17:14:03 /win 10 17:14:53 alex_joni_ has joined #emc 17:15:06 * Imperator_ thinks on drawing "the big picture of EMC2" 17:15:36 a lot of Alex's around :-) 17:15:55 Imperator_: got a big board? 17:16:37 no I want to draw a big poster that shows all components of EMC2 and the data flow 17:17:05 maybe it has also to show the functions 17:17:22 and structs 17:18:31 right ;) 17:20:18 the first problem is to find a good software for drawing 17:22:32 alex_joni has quit 17:23:22 alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni 17:27:18 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/realtimeio.c: The start of an IO controller that uses the realtime code & hardware (for example, the Vital card). 17:28:20 * alex_joni has to see that 17:28:27 :) 17:29:03 missing loads of headers, so it won't compile. 17:29:15 just wanna see it ;) 17:29:30 * paul_c hides some of the interesting stuff. 17:31:58 not on the viewcvs yet 17:35:06 hm.. 17:35:13 I shoud re-run this program.. 17:35:20 to see if I get better finish on the part.. 17:38:57 maybe a finish pass.. 17:41:14 hm, got only the new folders out of the CVS no files ? 17:41:19 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/realtimeio.c: DAC routine added. 17:41:53 Ah ok 17:42:02 cvs up -dPr bdi-4 emc2 17:42:24 jep, thx Paul 17:46:58 if it turns out ok I'll bring some pics :) 17:49:45 SWPadnos: Did you see realtimeio.c ? 17:53:42 paul_c: I have it 17:54:08 haven't seen that branch before and don't understand what is it for ??? 17:54:11 see how easy it is ? 17:54:20 hehe 17:54:53 Imperator_: that's the sources for the latest BDI 17:55:02 compileable for 2.6-kernels 17:55:02 Imperator_: It is a merge of EMC1 with libnml so that I can compile it for 2.6 kernels. 17:55:35 I think i can unterstand that file 17:55:46 but why is it in the emc2 tree ? 17:55:55 because of libnml 17:56:14 ok 17:56:16 and because the dir structure resembles emc2 more than emc1 17:56:20 partly because of libnml 17:56:55 and also because it draws a clear line under what is GPL code. 17:57:35 why are you doing so much development for emc1 Paul ? 17:57:50 Imperator_: you don't wanna go there ;) 17:57:54 I thought the programming power goes to EMC2 17:58:19 how do you mean that Alex 17:58:48 well.. one big advantage EMC2 has is also it's biggest disadvantage 17:59:00 * alex_joni wonders if Imperator_ gets the hint 17:59:51 I don't get it :-( 18:00:07 well.. ;) 18:00:10 It's no secret 18:00:47 then spill it out 18:01:00 I see much of the direction that HAL is going as flawed, and can not find the incentive to do anything about it. 18:01:37 Also, the changes in variable names (just for the hell of it) has invalidated most of my notes. 18:01:55 now.. if you brought it up ;) .. care to talk about it? or do we drop the subject? 18:02:13 I neither have the time nor inclination to go through fixing one or the other. 18:02:41 so I choose to follow my own path. 18:02:58 I agree with your point.. 18:03:02 Hmmm 18:03:21 but if you share your ideeas maybe others (me included) could bring it in the right direction ? 18:03:40 see the bdi-4 branch. 18:03:50 I am looking at it now 18:03:57 anything specific? 18:06:41 I agree with ALex, it's not realy good if one of teh main developer don't agree with the direction emc2 goes 18:08:15 * anonimasu sighs deeply 18:08:24 agreed that's bad.. 18:08:28 what's up an0n? 18:08:34 bad finishing pass? 18:08:43 alex_joni: havent tried it yet playing around with the cam program.. 18:10:48 in maybe 10 minutes I'll machine it.. 18:10:56 making multiple passes now instead of a single one.. 18:11:02 with full depth.. 18:13:49 paul_c: that drivers Dir is now also in the main emc2 branch visible without files 18:17:21 * paul_c checks 18:18:02 OK... One downside to cvs 18:18:17 just update with the -P flag. 18:20:44 ok 18:20:46 Jymmm has joined #emc 18:21:05 * paul_c » Food 18:21:52 paul_c » Food » 350 degree oven for 45 minutes (tough meat) 18:22:25 bahhh :-) 18:22:27 hehe 18:22:29 I'd go with less heat, but longer time 18:22:37 makes it softer 18:22:52 paul_c » Food » fire pit for 12 hours ? 18:23:03 (underground) 18:23:36 somebody's gonna get kicked ... ;) 18:24:12 hotan ekshannudje empsoi ebol hempekbal tote knanay ebol enudje empdje ebol hempbal empekcon 18:25:41 what alex_joni said 18:25:59 100 points for the one who knows what that means 18:26:26 :-) 18:26:31 500 points for the one who cares what that means! 18:26:36 something to eat 18:26:38 "You're pissing me off, so cut it out before I come over and slap you"? 18:26:45 nope 18:26:57 Oh, well - no prize for me :) 18:27:13 suggest to switch to german 18:27:24 to make it a bit easier: it's actually the phonetic transcription of the original 18:27:29 to be easier to read 18:28:18 Hm, ich war zwar mal ein paar Tage in Rumänien, aber ich kann noch nichtmal "Bitte" und "Danke sagen 18:28:27 :D 18:30:03 bbiab dinner time 18:30:05 hotan ekshannoudje mpsoei ebol hmpekbal tote knanau ebol enoudje mpdje ebol hmpbal mpekson 18:30:16 that's it ;) 18:31:08 little hint: it's in coptic ... 18:32:53 anyone know the characteristics of a CO2 -vs- YAG laser? 18:33:01 like? 18:33:05 cutting power? 18:33:46 iirc YAG is more powerfull than CO2 18:34:02 Since I'm not cutting metals, I know a C)2 is more general purpose, but I heard certain lasers won't do so well on certain materials 18:34:40 UV laser will do anything, but I'm not sure about YAG's 18:35:23 ticooun an (don't know) 18:39:04 YAG is near infrared, and isn't absorbed by a lot of metals, I think 18:39:57 * alex_joni wonders what axis comping does 18:40:14 it comps the axes, of course :) 18:40:22 ohh.. silly me 18:40:26 how did I miss that 18:40:36 * SWPadnos wonders :) 18:41:13 oresh 18:41:25 = cool ;) 19:10:15 * alex_joni leaves for a while 19:11:18 alex_joni has quit 19:18:47 picnet has quit 19:42:56 talking about making RT I/O configurable 19:43:22 WRT aggregation and separation of bits, I was thinking of parallel ports, where the bits aren't contiguous physically (address-wise), but should be logically (to the program) 19:43:40 [19:39:14] [SWPadnos] It's pretty easy to make the RT I/O mappable, is there any desire for that in EMC1 (or should it just wait for EMC2)? 19:43:41 [19:40:28] >paul_c< It is easy to make some of the RT IO mappable.... 19:43:42 [19:40:46] >paul_c< and I have a desire to make it work in the bdi-4 branch 19:43:42 [19:40:48] [SWPadnos] well - it depends on how the physical bits are separated / aggregated 19:43:43 [19:41:43] >paul_c< very few IO ports use bit addressing, so you either have to work on 8,16, or 32 bit wide ports. 19:44:44 If we define a max number of I/Os (like 32 in, 32 out), then the higher level code just asks for a bit to be turned on or off 19:44:57 either by function (SPINDLE_FWD) or index number (0-31) 19:45:23 it's ideal to make it by function, since the number of functions will be limited, and that allows for multiple bits per function 19:45:25 That is hw the code is currently written 19:45:59 OK - there's no reason that the INI code can't make a mask, and have the RT code use that mask instead of a compile-time constant 19:46:21 it only adds a single memory access, so the time impact shuold be pretty low 19:46:35 one sec... 19:46:58 SPINDLE_FWD is given an INDEX in the ini file... 19:47:08 (I'm looking at univstep / ppmc modules, so things may be different elsewhere in RT-land) 19:47:30 right - That is driver level code. 19:47:45 right - I can think of instances where it would be good to have multiple bits assigned to a single function 19:48:05 well - the driver doesn't have to hard-code those things either 19:48:16 When the higher level code calls a spindle_on, it already knows the INDEX to write to (from the ini file) 19:48:33 that's fine (ignoring the multiple-bit scenario) 19:49:25 the low level code presents the higher level with a flat bit map (e.g. INDEX 0 to 100) 19:50:01 just looking at the "ppmcMinLimSwitchRead" function (in ppmc_dio.c), all of the limit switch indices are hard-coded. 19:50:32 these could be an array of bitmasks, which would eliminate the switch statement 19:50:49 initialization routines would haveto build bitmask tables 19:50:51 yes. As are all the RT IO pins in the low level code for all the drivers. 19:51:13 they only need to be for hardware that has hardware in specific configurations 19:51:30 there's no particular need to connect a step/dir output to specific parallel port pins, though 19:51:49 since they're interchangeable 19:51:52 (logically) 19:52:29 up to a point - But it is probably best to ignore step/dir outputs for the moment. 19:52:34 also - for testing purposes (or to work around a fried parport pin), it might be nice to be able to define the X asis step/dir outputs ad bit12/13 19:52:50 sure - that's the most time-critical code, so might want to stay hard-coded 19:53:35 there is a reason why you wouldn't want step_x on port A and dir_x on port B 19:54:04 (I'm lkooking in motion/emcstepper for step generation stuff - is this the right place to look?) 19:54:33 typically (for the ISA bus) each IO write takes ~1 to 2µSec 19:54:49 right - you want to minimize the total number of writes. 19:55:41 and you certainly do not want dir being delayed - Subject to the timing requirements of the drive electronics. 19:55:45 though a word write (which is only applicable sometimes) still takes 1-2 uSec, but allows the CPU to keep on churning while it's happening 19:55:59 (timing of hi/lo bytes is hardware-dependent) 19:56:13 Ah, but an outw writes 16 bits in one go. 19:56:52 'cept when addressing an 8bit port. 19:56:54 depends on the hardware - 8-bit hardware will take the write, but it's physically two byte writes on the bus (I think - it's been a while) 19:57:09 uh-oh 19:57:21 * SWPadnos hears the wife calling 19:57:29 quick, hide. 19:57:42 * SWPadnos is running - too bad this isn't a laptop :) 19:58:06 maybe we can continue this tomorrow during the regular dev meetings 19:58:31 I'll look through the code a bit more, to familiarize myself with the layout 19:58:31 maybe - Did you want to commit any changes before you get dragged away ? 19:59:14 not really - the only thing I did was fix a missing 'int' in the in rtDioRead function declaration 19:59:32 (need int *value, the int was missing) 19:59:55 and I added a useless function, since the EMCMOT* commands don't provide an analog input function 19:59:58 well, it was only a rough hack to show you how it might be done - I didn't say the code was perfect. 20:00:03 of course :) 20:00:22 I then got bogged down in univsetp_dio.c 20:00:25 EMCMOT_ can be made to provide an ADC read func. 20:00:31 that would be good. 20:00:35 * SWPadnos is running now :) 20:00:57 'cept nothing would use it (at present) 20:01:54 SWPadnos is now known as swp_awaywithwife 20:02:21 lucy Mrs SWpadnos 20:02:30 lucky Mrs SWpadnos even. 20:08:49 picnet has joined #emc 20:17:31 K`zan has joined #emc 20:19:15 * paul_c test installs BDI-4.17 20:23:36 birdmun has joined #emc 20:24:31 ok so i have searched a bit in the archives at sourceforge but i have as yet to find the default root password on the BDI Live install 20:27:32 You installed to disk ? 20:27:40 or running from CD ? 20:29:00 cd 20:29:29 In that case, there is no root passwd 20:29:55 i couldnt convince morphix of that 20:30:19 if i just hit enter it said invalid and said try again 20:30:30 or something along those lines 20:31:03 open a console and type: 20:31:06 sudo passwd 20:31:37 then enter your own root password. 20:32:45 that seems kinda crazy ... but hey what do i know :) im the one askin for help 20:33:02 hopefully it will boot on this old laptop i have 20:33:22 How uch memory does it have ? 20:33:29 ^m 20:33:41 128 20:33:55 Live_rc46 ? 20:33:59 yes 20:34:17 all im hopin to do is to see if it will work 20:34:17 Don't think it will.... I usually recommend 256M 20:34:26 understandable 20:34:46 it was sluggish on this sys ... 2Gig w/ 1Gb of ram 20:34:56 I'll try to get BDI-Lite back up on a server... 20:35:48 umm ... ok ?? 20:35:53 * birdmun is confused 20:36:24 i have a linux partition on this system even but thats about the extent of it :| 20:36:27 BDI-Lite is (was) a slimmed down version of BDI-Live 20:36:39 that will boot with 128M memory. 20:36:56 so far so good on the laptop 20:37:39 like i said im not even believing i can do anything w/ it on the laptop just want to see about accessing the hdd 20:38:47 do a "mem" to see how much memory is free 20:38:53 kde is starting 20:39:14 slowly :) 20:39:35 give it a day or two. 20:39:49 lol 20:40:19 so you had a vacation sometime back? 20:40:27 or was it business? 20:40:38 been back a week. 20:41:11 ic 20:41:58 kinda strange ... the KDE splash was up and the icons were becoming colored and then after the second icon the splash went away 20:42:00 catching up on the backlog of commits & emails. 20:42:11 ic 20:42:22 im sure there is a mountain 21:00:16 i have to believe it would be faster for me to reboot this system twice than to wait on that system once 21:01:09 if i fail to get it to work i will return :) if it does work then many thanks to you paul_c 21:01:21 birdmun has quit 21:02:19 rayh has joined #emc 21:02:45 Yo Ray. 21:02:56 HI Paul. 21:04:01 Get that driver going? 21:04:40 For the Sensoray ? 21:04:53 Yep. 21:05:47 The encoder inputs work, it outputs a voltage.... 21:06:06 Adn the DIO inputs/ouputs should work. 21:06:51 Apart from analogue input functions, the driver is now in "testing" mode. 21:07:51 Also have some BDI news for you..... 21:08:48 picnet has quit 21:10:20 What is going on with BDI? 21:11:23 All the tools & libs for compiling the bdi-4 branch are now included on the CD 21:11:53 ChaRizMa has joined #emc 21:12:18 * paul_c wonders where tr is 21:13:24 tr? 21:13:43 adsluser-2725.adsl.ttnet.net.tr 21:13:55 ah. I used to know that. 21:15:27 Turky 21:16:33 Yep. 21:16:49 ben var turk 21:17:33 ja ja I m turk 21:18:04 You using emc? 21:18:22 no english 21:18:26 speak turkıshg ? 21:19:12 Sorry, English, a little German, and American. 21:19:38 MagicaL has joined #emc 21:19:40 Sa 21:19:44 a.s 21:19:46 MagicaL 21:19:48 :) 21:19:50 :)) 21:19:52 kanky naber 21:19:52 naber canım 21:19:57 ii senden naber 21:20:03 iydir yafru 21:20:09 bizim saflar buradamı:)) 21:20:10 bunlar benim europa lı arkadaslarım 21:20:15 hepsinin 21:20:17 gotunu 21:20:18 sikiyim 21:20:23 sana bişiy olmasın 21:20:25 :) 21:20:28 :)))))))) 21:20:39 anlamaz bu angutlar 21:20:53 sex yapalım mı 21:21:04 sex den anlarlar olm o kelimeden 21:21:05 :) 21:21:14 anlasınlar olm 21:21:15 :)) 21:21:15 baska bisiy de 21:21:20 big sikiş 21:21:21 :)) 21:21:23 gay len bunların hepsi 21:21:28 vayyy 21:21:29 pasif hemde 21:21:36 gaylar ne yapıyonuz 21:21:38 :) 21:21:38 sikmek lazım bunların 21:21:40 topunu 21:21:53 onlarda onu istiyor zaten 21:21:54 :)) 21:22:04 kanaldaki opa baksana 21:22:08 cs muahaha 21:22:15 :))) 21:22:19 onun aq 21:22:33 cakam ona yaa 21:22:36 yaa kanka 21:22:42 baska kanalamı gidelim 21:22:47 bu okuz salaklar 21:22:51 bi boktan anlamıo 21:22:52 :) 21:23:17 gentı 21:23:18 gentoo kanalındaki oplara baksana mına koim 21:23:21 #gento 21:23:24 aynen 21:23:24 :) 21:23:30 hey guys.... If you want to talk in Turkish 21:23:40 olm orada beni banladılar konusamıom 21:23:42 could you please use /msg 21:23:47 yes 21:23:49 MagicaL ne dio lan bu pic 21:23:59 :) 21:23:59 ne bilem 21:24:00 :))) 21:24:06 hay senin 21:24:07 :) 21:24:20 Turkish Music okee 21:24:29 paul_c 21:24:33 Turkish Music 21:24:38 severmisin 21:24:43 ingilizcesi ne la 21:24:59 paul_c like Turkish Music ? 21:24:59 MagicaL 21:25:02 paul_c like Turkish Music ? 21:25:11 Not really. 21:25:18 why? 21:25:22 ne dio bu angutyo 21:25:26 bekle lem 21:25:28 anlatacam 21:25:44 paul_c where are you from? 21:25:56 MagicaL olm bu yamyam len 21:25:57 England 21:25:57 :) 21:26:03 vavvv 21:26:14 paul_c England oke very gut 21:26:20 ı am from türkiye for antalya 21:26:33 paul_c you he? or she? 21:26:40 MagicaL sor bakam turkiye gelmişmi bu salak 21:26:46 bekle lem 21:26:48 konuşuyoz 21:26:48 :)) 21:26:53 MagicaL oke 21:27:32 paul_c : did you come to Turkiye? 21:27:33 MagicaL 21:27:36 paul_c : did you come to Turkiye? 21:27:51 ben hayır dicek 21:27:57 bence hayır dicek 21:27:59 paul_c : you like hardsex 21:28:01 :)))))))) 21:28:08 aha op oldu 21:28:08 adam 21:28:11 sutlanıoz 21:28:12 :) 21:28:13 paul_c has kicked MagicaL from #emc 21:28:18 MagicaL has joined #emc 21:28:27 ??? 21:28:28 kickmi bende ip ban 21:28:30 bekliodum 21:28:33 :) 21:28:36 :) 21:28:41 Next crack gets you banned MagicaL 21:28:53 cık dısarımı dio sana 21:28:57 bir daha ki sefere ban yiyeceksin MagicaL diyor arkadaş 21:28:57 :) 21:29:04 allahtan azcık englizcem var 21:29:05 :) 21:29:08 MagicaL uyrmadılar deme 21:29:12 :) 21:29:19 paul_c sorry ı am cry :((( 21:29:20 MagicaL baska kanal bulak gel 21:29:30 bekle lem burası beni sardı 21:29:35 muahahahahaa 21:29:38 :) 21:30:18 rayh has quit 21:30:24 paul_c : did you come to Turkey ? 21:30:45 bide ben soram ne dicek bakam 21:30:48 :) 21:30:49 MagicaL 21:30:53 :)) 21:30:57 MagicaL & ChaRizMa - One last time. If you want to talk in Turkish, either do it privately or in another channel. 21:31:02 olm konusanların kanalına gidek 21:31:18 ne dio bu pic 21:31:19 :) 21:31:44 paul_c Im no english 21:32:00 me not turkish. 21:32:10 MagicaL 21:32:12 paul_c yes 21:32:14 ne dio bu len 21:32:30 türkçe konuşmak istermisiniz ama bunun için başka bir kanala gitmeniz gerekir 21:32:35 ben türkçe bilmiyorum diyor.. 21:32:38 paul_c has kicked ChaRizMa from #emc 21:32:38 ChaRizMa has joined #emc 21:32:43 paul_c 21:32:45 op me 21:32:46 pls 21:32:49 MagicaL sole sikeyim onu 21:32:53 :)) 21:35:31 That fills the logs a bit.... 21:36:33 silence :-) 21:36:58 First time I've had to kick and ban 21:38:27 you have done a lot in the BDI branch, Paul 21:38:56 If someone asks for op status, I have to wonder why... Then ban them. 21:39:04 jmkasunich has joined #emc 21:39:20 Hi John. 21:39:31 Hello John 21:39:45 hi guys 21:40:17 ChaRizMa has quit 21:43:57 question. concerning step file support being merged into brlcad and brlcad interfacing to emc. which of the step aps would have the highest priority? 21:46:41 does brlcad do g-code export ? 21:51:28 MagicaL has quit 22:01:58 les has left #emc 22:04:18 paul_c, i am working on merging that into brlcad. 22:05:15 paul_c, it would be nice if both brlcad and emc both understood step-nc. that will come later. 22:07:27 * paul_c notes Fred Smith is rising to pick a fight on the CCED list... 22:09:18 it does look that way, doesn't it :) 22:09:30 swp_awaywithwife is now known as SWP_NotQuiteHere 22:10:04 did you notice Mariss Freimanis' post about the G200x on the Gecko list? 22:10:38 * paul_c is throwing some petrol (gas) on to the fire.... 22:13:59 Blunt question... How much of DeskCNC is GPL EMC code.... 22:14:56 CCED list ??? 22:15:12 yup 22:15:30 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/ 22:15:45 ah 22:18:04 picnet has joined #emc 22:19:14 I gather that the G-code interpreter started out as the emc1 code, possibly other parts. 22:19:37 I don't think he's used the GPL code (but of course, I don't know, since I can't see his code) 22:19:38 The GUI is certainly tkemc when I saw it... 22:20:36 was a version tkemc included in the PD emc1 code? 22:20:58 tkemc is PD as far as I'm aware. 22:21:10 However.... 22:21:13 that would mean it's OK (though rude) for him to use ir... 22:21:16 it 22:21:38 hello 22:21:50 I find it odd that soon after adding G33 to the interp (in emc2), DeskCNC supports it. 22:22:04 that is interesting 22:22:12 (though he did say he wrote it himself :) ) 22:22:34 Right... Like mach was written entirely by Art. 22:22:45 Absolutely ;) 22:23:21 and B. Gates wrote all of Windows. or SCO has copyright on Unix. 22:23:42 indeed - I read it in the paper, so it must be true 22:23:52 SWP_NotQuiteHere, any nice way to do some 32bit math on a 8bit processor? lets say I've got 9502F900 22:23:56 (and Micosoft innovates - they don't just steal or buy others' ideas) 22:24:14 SWP_NotQuiteHere, any nice way to do some 32bit math on a 8bit processor? lets say I've got $9502F900 and want to divide that by 10,000,000 (dec) 22:24:25 wanna see the src code to M$ ? 22:24:29 no 22:24:31 A-L-P-H-A: not really :) 22:24:33 ! 22:24:39 I'm about to eat 22:24:44 lol 22:24:46 $9502F900 div 989680 22:24:46 and want to divide that by 10,000,000 (dec) 22:24:53 I can't type and paste at the same time. :( 22:25:12 on the AVR? how about using a 31-bit divide routine? 22:25:17 32, that is 22:25:32 or are you just readying a value for printing? 22:25:42 SWP_NotQuiteHere is now known as SWPadnos 22:28:05 readying a value for printing ot an LCD 22:28:19 I found a 16bit routine... 22:28:21 and you want to print in decimal, not hex? 22:29:02 are both numbers in dec ? 22:29:06 this is what I want to do. 22:29:25 I have some fast AVR routines, but they rely on the MEGA core (they use movw) 22:29:52 actually, that's the divide tourines - you need the printing routines, which are more code, but way faster 22:29:59 routines, not tourines 22:30:06 (thinking about food, I guess) 22:30:08 32bit value (counter) / cyrstal speed = RPS. 60 (sec/min) / RPS = RPMs 22:30:23 RPS * 60 = RPM 22:30:45 eer, yeah. 22:31:13 don't 'spose the xtal is a power of 2 ? 22:31:19 right - the problem of converting a number to decimal is a bit easier than doing repetetive division, 22:31:29 (like testing for prime, without actually getting the factors) 22:31:33 I can make it a power of 2. like 4mHz, or 8mHz... 22:31:55 was thinking mor 2^n 22:32:01 oh. 22:32:15 hmm... if I can find a 4.096 mHz. 22:32:46 might make the math a little easier. 22:32:52 wait one - I'll upload a 32-bit -> ASCII routine 22:33:52 SWPadnos, thanks. 22:34:51 brb... something's burning. 22:38:46 OK - go to http://www.cncgear.com/Files/LongtoASCII.asm 22:39:10 you'll need to change it for a non-MEGA core, since it usees the extended version of LPM and things like that. 22:40:08 the basic algorithm is to do repetitive subtraction of progressively smaller powers of 10, but with a few timesaving tricks thrown in 22:40:26 xtal @ 2^22 = 4194304Hz 22:40:36 (I think the original algorithm was on AVRFreaks or something) 22:41:08 that doesn't help, since the number of cycles between tach piulses will probably not be a power of 2 22:42:02 paul_c: I'm headed to a friend's for dinner and robot talk - how late do you expect to be up tonight (and tomorrow morning :) ) 22:42:36 a 32bit counter has enough bits so the rounding errors are of little importance. 22:43:04 and for a rev counter, it does not need to be exact. 22:43:54 * paul_c is only going to be up for another 3 or 4 hours. 22:43:56 the P/Xtal is easy that way (though it's pretty easy and fast as a divide - 664 cycles max for 32/32) 22:43:59 isn't a long a 16bit? 22:44:18 OK - I'll review files tonight and we can chat during the dev meeting tomorrow 22:44:24 no - a 16-bit is a short 22:44:30 (to me anyway) 22:45:14 I also have routines that print a decimal string with a decimal point somewhere, so if you scale things correctly, you can have a pseudo-float display 22:45:20 Long is 32 bit. 22:45:28 int is 16 bit 22:46:21 A-L-P-H-A: you'll need a RAM variable (dispbytes), which needs to be 12 bytes or longer 22:46:38 you'll need a routine to grab bytes (I think in reverse order) and send them to the LCD 22:46:55 it's been a while since I've had to deal with that end of this software 22:47:25 I think I could deal with the hex value of things. 22:47:38 like converting hex to ASCII integers. 22:47:57 I'm to deal with each nibble... do a carry, store ASCII integer in a stack. 22:48:22 move to next nibble. repeat till no more nibbles. 22:48:27 you need registers called param0 and counter 22:49:01 you can use low registers for the "long" register sets 22:49:32 {a,b,c}{l,h,ul,uh} = a, b, and C registers, each with a Low, High, UpperLow, and UpperHigh byte 22:49:36 the ascii integer is (if >a, carry to next nibble), + $30 [I think, I'll have to look up the ascii table] 22:49:59 or just "Number + '0'" 22:50:05 that's 12 registers. wow. 22:50:09 ('o' is $30 ) 22:50:14 14 actually 22:50:27 This software has a lot of 32-bit stuff in it 22:50:40 the low registers are less useful for general use anyway 22:50:48 and these can be used as temps if needed 22:50:52 rayh has joined #emc 22:51:07 Actually, I've got to run (no - it's not you, Ray :) ) 22:51:07 SWPadnos, cool. Well,I don't wnat to hold you from your dinner. 22:51:15 I'll be back later. 22:51:19 Hide quick. 22:51:21 SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away 22:51:22 I'll ask again later. 23:15:58 rayh is now known as rayh_away 23:24:30 picnet has quit 23:28:04 * paul_c goes for a ban on CCED 23:40:19 go paul go :) 23:41:54 wanna see the tirade the comment brought on my local lug ? 23:42:03 sure 23:42:16 yea 23:43:44 Stand by... 23:43:47 [23:35:20] ... very little software? 23:43:47 [23:35:38] are you so anal that you think that there's very little software for linux... 23:43:48 [23:36:06] grow a fucking clue, look at what's available in the open source world, and then realise that there's a reason that linux apps are less exploitable... 23:43:48 [23:36:51] there's a whole fuckloada good developers out there that audit the code, and there's no problems with fixing the broken bits because WE HAVE THE SOURCE 23:43:49 [23:37:46] no, compare that with the closed source of the windows operating system, and the very broken API structures, most of the security problems with windows are through the core libraries that it uses, that no one except the twats at microsoft have access to the source. 23:43:52 [23:38:57] we can't fix the bugs in its kernel, we can't fix the bugs in 90% of its libraries, and we're consistently plagued with Microsoft making the default user a "Power User" and having full access to the kernel, devices, and anything else they want, just in the interest of "easy software installs" 23:43:56 [23:39:47] the problem with "east software installs" is that the average user doesn't know or care what they are installing, just that it does the "job" that they need at that time 23:43:59 [23:40:13] it could be spyware for all they care, and lots of them do not bother to even have a virus scanner installed, let alone know what spyware is. 23:44:44 Guess I shouldn't poke a Debian Developer as he is about to go to bed... 23:45:51 oh, did you copy the cced list comment for him? 23:46:02 yup ;} 23:52:31 Man the surplus supplies around here really suck anymore 23:52:43 where? 23:52:48 Silicon Valley 23:53:20 wanted like $75 for a 6" slide with motor 23:53:40 surplus stuff is probably always getting smaller and smaller 23:54:03 since they don't need things like giant tape drives anymore 23:55:11 most stuff anymore is medical realteed, but there only computer surplus is in high supply. 23:55:24 very high supply 23:55:47 outdated computers 23:56:17 some of there aren't that outdated 23:57:14 but just the mass qty's available is pathetic 23:58:05 pathetic as in large quantities, or small 23:58:45 K`zan is now known as O-M-E-G-A 23:59:27 Oh foo... Sherline's FTP isn't responding. 23:59:37 O-M-E-G-A is now known as K`zan