00:00:05 <robin_sz> but the mind spec implies they thought it through
00:00:33 <websys> Oh they did - they know it will do everything they can think of
00:00:49 <robin_sz> heh
00:01:08 <picnet> picnet has quit
00:01:22 <robin_sz> to be fair, they know what they want .. its just communicating it is sometimes optional
00:01:37 <robin_sz> thnakfully htey always *love* what I do for them :)
00:02:07 <robin_sz> and you can do quite funky tings with Java :)
00:02:12 <websys> that's better the some of the clowns I've dealt with
00:02:32 <robin_sz> yeah, i can imagine
00:02:48 <websys> I've looked at Java but it seems to slow for realtime calcs
00:02:56 <robin_sz> oh it is ..
00:03:00 <robin_sz> hopeless.
00:03:07 <websys> Might redo the interface is Java tho
00:03:10 <robin_sz> this isnt motion stuff thank $deity
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07:59:00 <anonimasu> morning everyone
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09:42:42 <asdfqwega> anybody around?
09:44:40 <asdfqwega> I'm trying to configure an .ini for a QueMonster(tm) machine
09:44:51 <asdfqwega> The rotary axis is giving me trouble
09:45:01 <asdfqwega> I'm using the BDI 4.14
09:45:46 <asdfqwega> Check my thinking:  Gecko/stepper/worm  setup
09:45:53 <asdfqwega> 63:1 worm drive
09:46:24 <asdfqwega> 200 step/rev stepper with /10 microstepping
09:46:42 <asdfqwega> = 350 counts/degree?
09:48:41 <asdfqwega> Plus, is there no way to jog an A axis in tkemc?
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10:52:22 <anonimasu> yeah
10:52:38 <anonimasu> hold on until I get back to work
11:08:06 <anonimasu> iab
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12:55:37 <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
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16:50:37 <A-L-P-H-A> hi alex_joni
16:50:48 <alex_joni> hey alpha
16:53:18 <alex_joni> * alex_joni is freaking tired
16:53:32 <alex_joni> did I miss anything these days?
16:57:35 <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
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19:15:36 <alex_joni> greetings..
19:43:07 <anonimasu> hello
19:43:07 <anonimasu> :)
19:43:18 <alex_joni> hey an0n...
19:43:25 <anonimasu> I tried milling my part today..
19:43:28 <anonimasu> it failed.. :/
19:43:38 <alex_joni> ouch.. why?
19:43:49 <anonimasu> the z axis didnt go where it was supposed to..
19:43:54 <anonimasu> it went just fine..
19:44:03 <anonimasu> then when drilling a hole with the endmill.. it just didnt come back up far enough
19:44:04 <alex_joni> broke anything?
19:44:06 <anonimasu> no
19:44:08 <anonimasu> :)
19:44:13 <alex_joni> then it's kinda ok ;)
19:44:15 <anonimasu> just a endmill earlier due to the same problem..
19:44:22 <anonimasu> I ordered 5 new ones..
19:44:30 <anonimasu> dormer.. :)
19:44:31 <alex_joni> maybe lost some steps on z?
19:44:38 <anonimasu> yeah, but I have no clue on why
19:44:41 <anonimasu> I was running really slow..
19:44:47 <anonimasu> like 20mm/min
19:44:48 <alex_joni> too much accel?
19:44:52 <alex_joni> ahhh.. slow
19:44:57 <anonimasu> extremely slow
19:44:59 <anonimasu> :)
19:45:10 <alex_joni> need to put it through some tests
19:45:14 <anonimasu> but I think it might be the case that the endmill gummed up and stuck in the plastic..
19:45:30 <anonimasu> I am going to give it another shot tomorrow night
19:45:44 <alex_joni> hmmm.. could be
19:46:34 <anonimasu> I'll try to machine it in foam instead of in plastic..
19:46:46 <anonimasu> to see if it does the same under no load conditions
19:46:51 <anonimasu> * anonimasu hates steppers
19:47:03 <anonimasu> they are scary.
19:47:12 <alex_joni> why is that?
19:47:23 <alex_joni> didn't you say you had g340's ?
19:47:27 <anonimasu> you never know if you loose steps until you hit the table..
19:47:41 <anonimasu> yeah but as long as they get pulses they move to the commanded position
19:48:11 <anonimasu> while, I never know if the stepper dosent go..
19:48:20 <anonimasu> or if it's stuck/ferrors
19:48:22 <alex_joni> you have steppers too?
19:48:26 <anonimasu> yeah one
19:48:28 <anonimasu> at the Z axis..
19:48:32 <alex_joni> on the Z :)
19:48:34 <alex_joni> bummer
19:48:42 <alex_joni> does it hold position?
19:48:47 <anonimasu> one of my geckos gecko died.. 
19:48:51 <anonimasu> yes
19:48:55 <anonimasu> I dont have a ballscrew there yet
19:49:00 <anonimasu> so it's spring loaded..
19:49:43 <anonimasu> It seems to hold the position very nicely
19:49:56 <alex_joni> how about moving it with your hand?
19:50:06 <anonimasu> no problem with that
19:50:22 <anonimasu> moves without too much force
19:51:02 <anonimasu> the accel is 1.2 ;) at the axis..
19:52:42 <alex_joni> seems ok..
19:52:53 <anonimasu> yes
19:52:57 <anonimasu> it's really strange :)
19:53:52 <alex_joni> got some pictures?
19:53:54 <anonimasu> no
19:53:56 <alex_joni> of the mill?
19:54:11 <anonimasu> :/
19:54:11 <alex_joni> then you should take some ;)
19:54:22 <anonimasu> I am too ashamed of my motor mounts ;)
19:54:27 <anonimasu> they look like crap
19:54:38 <anonimasu> I'll redo them once th boaring head appears
19:54:39 <alex_joni> you can machine those later ;)
19:55:01 <alex_joni> send me some pics.. I can't complain (I don't have a running mill.. sooo...)
19:55:01 <anonimasu> hehe
19:55:08 <anonimasu>  dont have any yet
19:55:21 <anonimasu> and no cam right now either
19:55:21 <anonimasu> :)
19:57:37 <alex_joni> right
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20:13:29 <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabs a night-snack :)
20:29:31 <alex_joni> bye guys
20:29:42 <alex_joni> too long day, today
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21:22:50 <robin_sz> meep?
21:24:14 <robin_sz> * robin_sz watches tumbleweed blow across the channel
21:31:23 <asdfqwega> Paraffin a-tilly-aay
21:31:57 <asdfqwega> Anyone here use a rotary axis with EMC?
21:32:53 <robin_sz> nope ...
21:33:03 <robin_sz> Ive heard 'odd' tings about ti though
21:33:37 <jepler> asdfqwega: cradek has in the past
21:33:50 <jepler> I don't remember what the problems were .. doesn't work at all with segmentqueue, I know that
21:34:38 <robin_sz> ISTR it had some strange behaviour regarding interpolation
21:35:00 <asdfqwega> I'm trying to use the current BDI with one
21:35:30 <asdfqwega> I'm just going to use it as an indexing head
21:35:44 <robin_sz> what would be the disadvantage in pretending its a linear axis
21:36:06 <anonimasu> hm, not having your cam program working?
21:36:10 <robin_sz> and just having '360' be one full turn, although the CNC will think its 360mm?
21:37:00 <anonimasu> :)
21:37:16 <asdfqwega> Trouble is, my counts/degree is 350 - and I think that low a number is causing problems
21:37:26 <robin_sz> pretending to EMC its linear, but the cam its rotary .. I mean, emc will just do the right thing surely?
21:38:12 <anonimasu> hm.. maybe..
21:38:14 <asdfqwega> robin_sz:  That might be a temporary workaround
21:38:15 <anonimasu> I dont know :)
21:38:22 <anonimasu> but well, rotary should work anyway
21:38:38 <robin_sz> yes it should
21:38:42 <robin_sz> try it :)
21:38:45 <anonimasu> hehe
21:38:47 <anonimasu> I will later on
21:38:55 <anonimasu> but my Z is loosing steps right now..
21:38:57 <anonimasu> :/
21:39:00 <robin_sz> no
21:39:03 <robin_sz> its not
21:39:11 <robin_sz> its *losing* steps
21:39:31 <anonimasu> but I have no idea for what reason it is losing stepps.
21:39:33 <anonimasu> *grins*
21:39:43 <anonimasu> (intentional typo)
21:39:44 <robin_sz> sorry, you just triggered my losing/loosing per hate :)
21:40:04 <asdfqwega> Listen to robin, he knows what he's talking aboot
21:40:15 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is part Canadian
21:40:52 <robin_sz> sigh ...
21:41:08 <anonimasu> I have no idea why it's loosing steps though.. might be because the plastic gets gummy when trying to drill with a endmill..
21:41:22 <robin_sz> nah
21:41:30 <robin_sz> should be plenty of force really
21:41:46 <robin_sz> accels too high?
21:41:51 <anonimasu> heh 1.2 in accel..
21:41:53 <robin_sz> sppeds too high?
21:42:12 <anonimasu> like 100mm/min max..
21:42:22 <robin_sz> pulse rate?
21:42:51 <anonimasu> 460 I think..
21:43:01 <robin_sz> 460 hz max?
21:43:11 <robin_sz> soiunds low
21:43:20 <anonimasu> 460pulses per mm.
21:43:32 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is off to see the Wizard - who makes pool queues
21:43:41 <asdfqwega> later, guys
21:44:13 <robin_sz> so 46000 pulses minute .. less than 1khz so no prolem with rate then
21:44:18 <robin_sz> later dude
21:45:13 <robin_sz> could be pulse shape t the drive, checked for ripple and hum on the step/dir inputs?
21:45:57 <anonimasu> no I havent but the other axis:es works..
21:46:11 <anonimasu> there's nothing different with the wiring of that axis..
21:46:17 <anonimasu> the axis have been running fine before..
21:46:31 <anonimasu> although I've never milled anything other then foam..
21:47:43 <robin_sz> well, 460 pulse per mm ...thats into a 10:1 microstepping drive?
21:48:16 <anonimasu> yep
21:48:21 <anonimasu> g240
21:48:29 <robin_sz> ah, servos
21:48:36 <anonimasu> no
21:48:37 <anonimasu> stepper..
21:48:49 <anonimasu> I have a stepper on z since my servo driver broke..
21:48:51 <robin_sz> G201 is 10u stepper
21:49:12 <anonimasu> err yeah its err
21:49:15 <anonimasu> g210 is it..
21:49:44 <robin_sz> oh, right
21:50:07 <robin_sz> but thats a non ustepping drive .. 1 pulse = 1 motor step isnt it?
21:50:29 <robin_sz> anyway,
21:50:36 <anonimasu> it's a microstepping drive...
21:50:44 <robin_sz> 1 motor turn = 4mm roughly?
21:50:56 <anonimasu> no idea..
21:50:59 <anonimasu> I dont have the gearing
21:51:04 <anonimasu> I measured until it went 0.01
21:51:12 <anonimasu> I havent converted the axis to ballscrew yet
21:51:35 <robin_sz> you have no idea what the pitch of your Z axis screw is?
21:52:14 <anonimasu> that's right
21:52:16 <anonimasu> :)
21:52:28 <anonimasu> g210 can do ustepping..
21:52:56 <robin_sz> if you bypass the 901 board yeah
21:53:03 <anonimasu> the only diff is that g210 has a pulse multiplier..
21:53:08 <robin_sz> but liek who pays for a 901 board, then bypasses it?
21:53:09 <anonimasu> it's a jumper..
21:53:09 <anonimasu> :)
21:53:50 <anonimasu> it's just ~37$
21:53:52 <anonimasu> :)
21:54:08 <robin_sz> well, next time you have $37 spare, send it to me ;)
21:54:13 <anonimasu> heh no way..
21:54:25 <anonimasu> I paid $120 for the shipping of my 3 geckodrives.
21:54:29 <robin_sz> so 46 real pulses per mm
21:54:43 <anonimasu> no 460..
21:54:44 <anonimasu> :)
21:54:58 <robin_sz> no ... 46 motor steps per mm
21:55:38 <anonimasu> let me check..
21:56:15 <robin_sz> all im trying to do is work out roughly you Z axis force available
21:56:38 <robin_sz> I suspect its large compared to the effort of cutting plastic
21:56:57 <anonimasu> oh..
21:57:09 <anonimasu> the motor torque is about 1nm
21:57:15 <robin_sz> ooh tiny
21:57:22 <robin_sz> do they sell them that small?
21:57:27 <anonimasu> eh?
21:57:30 <anonimasu> or maybe 2..
21:57:52 <robin_sz> 2 is closer to useably I guess
21:58:10 <anonimasu> I have a mess in my head with numbers..
21:58:10 <robin_sz> 1nm on a non-ballscrew ... could be friction
21:58:17 <anonimasu> nah.. it's geared..
21:58:30 <robin_sz> now he tells me ;)
21:58:38 <robin_sz> roughly how geared? 4:1
21:58:41 <anonimasu> first to a 4:1
21:58:54 <anonimasu> then onto the machine where the unknown gearing is..
21:59:01 <anonimasu> it's way too much torque to stall the axis by hand..
21:59:05 <robin_sz> right
21:59:28 <robin_sz> id consider redcuing the accel maybe
21:59:28 <anonimasu> my servos has less torque then the stepper..
21:59:32 <anonimasu> :)
21:59:49 <anonimasu> and the table moves me then I try to push aginst it..
22:00:09 <robin_sz> 1200mm/sec^2 might be a bit high with that gearing
22:01:15 <anonimasu> the z axis wont see that kind of speed.. :)
22:01:27 <robin_sz> speed?
22:01:33 <robin_sz> accel!
22:01:46 <anonimasu> hm.. so my accel is too high?
22:01:59 <robin_sz> sounds like it might be
22:02:17 <robin_sz> 0-100mm min at 1200 mm/sec^2
22:02:36 <anonimasu> what'a good typical value?
22:02:46 <robin_sz> thats 0-1khz in 0.1second
22:02:55 <anonimasu> like 0.4
22:03:17 <anonimasu> * anonimasu stashes money for a vital card and new drives
22:03:24 <anonimasu> servos are neat.
22:03:31 <anonimasu> :D
22:03:52 <robin_sz> fiddle the accel values until 0-fullspeed on your Z is around half a second or so maybe
22:04:02 <anonimasu> what's a good maxspeed for Z?
22:04:19 <robin_sz> sigh .. depends on machine and gearing :)
22:04:28 <anonimasu> sorry about asking lots.. but I have no idea how fast it should be
22:04:56 <robin_sz> try slowing your accel, smooth things up a bit, see if that cures the missing steps
22:05:05 <anonimasu> yeah I'll do that
22:05:19 <anonimasu> I'll test mill in foam tomorrow.. so it'll be no big deal if it breaks..
22:05:26 <robin_sz> a stepper should spin to a couple of khz in real steps, 20Khz usteps
22:05:44 <robin_sz> but emc has issues with high step rates
22:05:55 <anonimasu> yeah I noticed..
22:06:07 <robin_sz> 10khz into a ustepper is a fair compromise
22:06:12 <anonimasu> it ferrors at about 500mm/min..
22:06:33 <robin_sz> yeah,
22:06:38 <robin_sz> nbto quick huh?
22:06:47 <robin_sz> I suspect you are overgeared maybe
22:07:16 <robin_sz> stepper spining hard, machine barely moving?
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22:07:39 <anonimasu> oh, it does that on all axises..
22:07:49 <anonimasu> I think emc fails to crank out enough pulses.. :)
22:08:20 <anonimasu> and it ferrors because of that.. even though I have no feedback to emc..
22:08:49 <anonimasu> I am kind of curious if I should buy a vital card or a g2002..
22:10:27 <anonimasu> it'll have to wait though bought a vise a couple of days ago..
22:10:46 <anonimasu> and I am waiting for my boaring(however you spell it) head to arrive
22:56:25 <robin_sz> boring :)
22:56:57 <robin_sz> a boaring head would be something to do with large wild pigs :)
22:57:58 <robin_sz> not that it really matters, we know what you mean, but I guess you like to know the correct spelling maybe?
23:08:25 <anonimasu> yeah.
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