00:00:58 the guy who ported the interp to the Rabbit chip, doesn't want to change the names to sensible style, because it will make diffing agianst the current EMC interp difficult :( 00:01:11 so that code is littered with the madness too :( 00:01:14 sigh. 00:02:06 perhaps we could co-ordinate a fixing of the interp in here with a fixing of the interp in his project? 00:02:20 * robin_sz shkes the channel to see if anyone is awake 00:07:20 hmm. 00:08:05 Can anyone think of a vlid reason why the usuall == operator is substituted for a macro IS, != for IS_NOT etc in the code? what porpoise does it serve? 00:12:28 gezr has joined #emc 00:12:53 robin_sz : is there something special about masking a part for powdercoating? 00:13:27 yes 00:13:42 usually it only half works :) 00:14:07 just use masking tape and see how it goes. not guaranteed results 00:14:36 I got a temperature controller for my oven this week, 00:14:51 I overbaked some parts last week .. went brown :( 00:15:33 advantages of powdercoat/spray is tremendous hu? 00:15:39 20mins @ 210 degrees is what they cook em at usually, so you can see the masking tape might well burn up 00:15:46 oh yeah, its awesome 00:15:58 the place ive talked to uses 400 00:16:05 400C? 00:16:09 F 00:16:12 my bad 00:16:16 whats that in C? 00:16:26 or K ;) 00:16:40 I dont know 00:16:43 me neither 00:17:03 how about in Rankin? 00:17:22 hehe 00:17:29 400 F = 204 C 00:17:36 so .. 210 for 20 mins then :) 00:18:17 gotta do the cylinder head onthe car tomorow 00:18:26 sweet :) 00:18:27 got it half off now 00:18:34 oh I got my gasket set in today :) 00:18:39 not paint it .. fix it :( 00:18:41 not much for what I sapent 00:18:54 ahh. yes. BM gaskets aint cheap 00:19:04 noting BM is cheap! 00:19:24 hard earend dollars for bits of cardboard huh? 00:19:25 no definately not chaeap 00:19:33 man seals, rubbery bits? 00:19:35 yeah, and a lot of special seals 00:19:38 right 00:19:42 thats not so bad then 00:19:50 thing is, I have to look at it like a car payment 00:19:59 sorta 00:20:09 whatever I put in is exactly what I need to get out 00:20:13 but on a car payment, you actually get a car that works ... 00:20:32 yeah, if this doenst go so well, Ill video tape the rage 00:20:36 heh 00:20:54 maybe a high speed jump into a lake, or things that go boom 00:20:56 not sure 00:21:00 im removing the cylinder head to do the valve clearences on the wofes car 00:21:21 you have to pull the heads for that hu? 00:21:25 they are mostly about 0.008" 00:21:33 except for 2 00:21:38 that are about 0.1" 00:21:45 oh lord 00:21:58 isnt clearance between the pusher and the cam ? 00:22:02 this may be due to the pistons bouncing offthem 00:22:12 when the timing belt snapped 00:22:27 yeah, if a valve exists at the bottom hu? 00:22:38 oh, lets hope its just bent 00:22:52 yeah 00:23:01 if it had snapped, there would be no clearance 00:23:12 thats true 00:23:15 the big clearance suggests its tipped 00:23:34 whatever, I have a spare head anyway 00:23:50 thats the troule with diseasels 00:23:58 no room for mistakes :( 00:24:50 the G2002 is looking good! 00:25:00 can build code for it just fine 00:25:04 I just hope I get the factory 10.2:1 out of his thing 00:25:30 were you able to try cradek's segmod mod? 00:25:34 yeah 00:25:39 thtas smooooth 00:25:40 how did that go? 00:25:46 like smoooooooooth 00:25:59 with blended Oh'S HU? 00:26:07 mmmmmmm 00:26:11 blended ... 00:26:35 is the output train from the g2002 superb? 00:26:36 i just air-cut some parts with the motors in a test frame 00:26:41 oh yeah 00:26:55 the G2002 shows the full benefit of hardware based step gen 00:26:57 its strictly hardware hu? 00:27:03 well, no 00:27:13 theres a micro running the emc interp 00:27:14 well, i mean the pluses 00:27:22 it rus emc? 00:27:25 sure 00:27:33 the interpreter anyway 00:27:36 sorry im wearing rubber gloves, emc is inside the g2002 box? 00:27:40 and thats the best bit :) 00:27:48 yep 00:28:00 does gecko know about the new changes? 00:28:18 you use a simple windows or linux GUI and send a normal GCODE file to the G2002 00:28:25 it suns the code, motors move 00:28:29 oh so smooth 00:28:59 yeah, its all on the list, files in the geckodrive area on Yahoo! 00:29:22 Steve Hardy has done an excellent job!! 00:29:23 very neat 00:29:40 GPL'd too 00:29:58 and gecko is the company making them? 00:30:07 making the boards yeah 00:30:22 cool 00:30:23 steve just wrote the code and published it GPL 00:30:34 the circuit of the board is published too 00:31:02 its jsut, well, complex. easier to get one bought in 00:32:23 mind ewe, cradeks code ... 00:32:26 thats close 00:32:59 if anyting, the motion is better planned, just let down a bit by the roughness of PC generated pulses 00:33:34 I'm putting it on a Bridgeport this week anyway, EMC that is 00:34:57 oh yeah i put a few more pics up about the bicke 00:35:11 uri? 00:35:32 www.masternode.net/gallery 00:36:28 you blasted the rocker cover? looks neat 00:36:56 which one are you looking at? 00:37:07 7/10 00:37:30 bottom end cover looks cleaned up nice 00:38:00 stuff on the plastic table undone so far 00:38:01 picnet has joined #emc 00:38:22 the part on the table with the black, is wher4e I have great powder coat concerns 00:38:28 2 bearing journals on it 00:39:03 the rocker cover is uncleaned? 00:39:12 im half a step away from screwing the black, and going all blast 00:39:14 yeah 00:39:24 looks clean enough to me :) 00:39:36 plenty of crud on the block though 00:39:38 I blasted it earlier let me take a new photo :) 00:40:40 how does your masking tape hold up to the blasting? ok? or strips it right off? 00:42:07 it supurb :) 00:42:33 I have a 1hp compressor, so Im limited on blast velocity 00:42:42 check out the new photo, its probably on page 21 00:42:43 2 00:43:08 yeah :), how does it look now? 00:44:36 ah yes .. comes up lovely 00:44:46 nice 00:45:05 gonna get the frame powder coated 00:45:07 ?? 00:45:12 yeah :) 00:45:22 they cant really screw that up 00:45:40 is it the pearlescent white paintwork on the plastics? 00:46:13 na just standard black plastic, and then white plastic on some other things 00:46:29 bead blasting the old stuff seems to clean it up nicely as well 00:46:34 I meant the fairing/tank 00:47:00 you know, the big bits :) 00:47:07 its the donalite green 00:47:19 yeuw :) 00:47:29 im gonna have to wack at the tank a bit to straighten up a dent 00:47:36 there is no faring 00:47:43 there was a mistake one rainy day 00:47:45 the white ones are nice, dunno they do the green one in the UK 00:47:51 ahh :) 00:48:07 and then that holy crap bwm stuff is expensive issue 00:48:08 the ABS didnt save you? 00:48:18 no abs on this model, it wasnt offered 00:48:23 right 00:48:39 well, thats what you get for playing with the brake lever :) 00:48:43 rayh has joined #emc 00:48:47 hi ray 00:48:48 I was going slow, and both back and front locked up, and I had no where to go but lay it down to get it to stop 00:49:05 did you consider letting go of the brakes? 00:49:11 I should have kept it up and put a dent in the damn cars bumper 00:49:20 Hi Robin 00:49:23 they wouldnt free up 00:49:44 it was one of those afternoon thunderstorms, enough to lift the oil on the road to the top 00:50:02 * robin_sz nods 00:50:21 I can remember the moment even now, that happend 15 years ago 00:50:26 heh, 00:50:54 so im sorta rebuilding my mistake and making things righht with my dad :) 00:51:00 oh yeah, yours is the 3/4 of a real one now, I rememebr 00:51:19 your dads bike? 00:51:22 i may get a rt faring for it as time goes on 00:51:42 it was purchased by him originally, then he sold it to me for $1 00:51:49 and you trashed it :) 00:51:53 then it blew up 00:51:58 right ... 00:52:00 and spent the last 10 years sitting 00:52:06 and *then* you trashed it :) 00:52:22 yeah, im ridding it every day now :) 00:52:29 rayh: you were asking about G2002 earlier 00:52:36 accelerated wear :) 00:52:45 Yes I was. 00:52:54 ...?? 00:53:30 robin_sz : I wish I had taken some pics when I pulled the head, damn wasp like insects made the cylinders home 00:53:59 gezr: yeah, I saw your posts :) 00:54:15 rayh: wodja wanna know? 00:54:58 First, what's a four axis system cost. 00:55:14 well, they only do 6 axis anyway 00:55:23 Okay. 00:55:26 I think it was 250 USD 00:55:36 I thought there were plug in modules. 00:55:42 thats the old system 00:55:46 ]discontinued 00:55:50 Oh. 00:55:55 new one is a slab 00:56:10 say, 100mm x 160mm (eurocard size) 00:56:12 What are the capabilities. Stepper servo?? 00:56:46 6 axes, 16 in, 16 out DIO, USB connection, step pulse gen (feed stepper or serve type Gecko drives) 00:57:11 can run the EMC interp on board 00:57:19 Only usb? 00:57:32 so just dump GCODE down the USB, it all happens 00:57:37 yeah only USB 00:57:51 maybe ethernet ... not yet though 00:58:09 Oh. So most all of the EMC equivalent is dumped into the rabbit. 00:58:23 can be in one code variant yes 00:58:34 variants? 00:58:44 Mariss ships it with a semi-intelligent motions system on it 00:58:59 but you can reprogrma it with whatever you like 00:59:11 Art Fenerty has code to use it with Mach2 or 3 00:59:30 Steve Hardy has published GPL code to run the emc inter on it 00:59:46 i think theres one more ... 00:59:52 Does it complete one block before reading another or is there look ahead? 00:59:54 forget who though 01:00:09 thers not tru look ahead ,, but someting as good 01:00:25 it builds a motion queue and then smooths it 01:00:48 Okay. 01:00:51 with a 'moving average' alogorithm 01:00:56 its very very smooth 01:01:13 But is it accurate on sharp changes? 01:01:16 yes 01:01:29 best of all worlds really 01:02:14 mind ewe, cradeks mending of segmod is pretty impressive too 01:02:15 As my grandfather would say, "I believe you but there's thousands that wouldn't" 01:02:36 yeah. whatever, Im having fun playing with it 01:02:59 I bought the Rabbit compiler and an happily hacking away and downloading code to the target 01:03:01 In essence is it a single tasking os? 01:03:05 yep 01:03:13 with hardware based step generators 01:03:18 Okay. 01:03:34 did you see mariss 'unstallable stepper motor' post? 01:03:50 Long ago we got model cars to run around a track with dos and peek and poke. 01:04:03 No I'm not a yahoo person at all. 01:04:07 'k 01:04:15 quick description 01:04:20 take a stepper 01:04:22 Thanks. 01:04:28 and a gecko drive 01:04:56 hook some signals out of the drive relating to the phase lag of the stepper 01:05:04 feed them back to the G2002 01:05:22 as the lag increases, slow down the incoming pulse train 01:05:39 result, it works like a servo ..!! 01:06:29 Something went way over my head? 01:06:34 he *clains* his test bench one basically you could put a wrench on it and it continued when you let go, without missing a step 01:06:49 well, I didnt understand it myself to be honest 01:06:55 learath has quit 01:07:15 basically he's fed back some load information from the drive to the step pulse generator 01:07:18 I can see the wrench thing though. 01:07:47 In emc terms you simply pile the extra pulses into following error and then reclaim them when the motor comes loose. 01:08:03 sorta yes. 01:08:31 Does that lag coordinate to the other motors among those being driven? 01:08:35 but its slowing down the putput pulse trian when you work out the motor cant keep up 01:08:46 yes, it slwos all the motors down 01:09:31 from what I gather, its someting to do with looking at the back emf to work out the phase lag on the rotor 01:09:39 not just plain current draw 01:10:05 but it was a bit hazy 01:10:09 A long while ago we did some experiments with steppers and encoder feedback. 01:10:25 I tink this was encoderless 01:10:32 There is a module still available for the K/M dro card. 01:10:55 Right. I can see how it can read lag from the motor. 01:11:20 The thing we did with EMC was speed up the motor when they began to lag. 01:11:24 Made it worse. 01:11:26 heh 01:11:30 it would :) 01:11:36 once its stalled, its stalled 01:12:03 We thought about flipping it over so steps slowed to match encoder feedback but never did. 01:12:19 with a stepper, you are working your way back up the torque curve as you slow down 01:12:29 That's why I was confused about it working like a servo. 01:12:40 well, yeah 01:12:43 Servo's turn up power when lag occurrs. 01:12:46 bad description 01:12:57 No good job. 01:13:04 these are turning the torque up I guess 01:13:14 Right. 01:13:24 smart cookie that guy 01:13:30 With the new 2002 then, there is no need for rt. 01:13:35 nope 01:13:38 non at all 01:13:54 I have it running here, doze and linux GUI's 01:13:57 Cause it's done in the rabbit. 01:14:03 * robin_sz nods 01:14:26 Sounds like a fairly good hardware solution to the issue. 01:14:41 seems so 01:15:07 850 us for four gecko drives and the 2002 and you supply the program feeder. 01:15:28 mm, 01:15:35 120 x 4 + 250 01:16:05 Um I was thinking of the 210's 01:16:11 right 01:16:19 not needed 210s use 201s 01:16:23 Is there an upper limit to the pulse rate? 01:16:29 this thing does pulse trians to 250khz easy 01:17:12 so you get very smooth changes between individual frequencies 01:17:13 Well above what a motor can handle at 10x micro. 01:17:18 sure ... 01:17:27 but thats part of the key 01:17:37 if you have 20khz max like we do 01:17:45 next step down is? 01:17:51 16.666khz? 01:18:13 whatever, its fairly big jumps 01:18:22 even though we mix em up 01:18:27 Right. That's why I always set max possible above max vel. 01:18:42 the g2002 produces *very* smooth pulse trains 01:18:52 you have to try it to believe it ... 01:19:21 I wonder how it compares to Jon E's board/ 01:19:27 dunno 01:19:40 spect his board is smooth too 01:19:41 I'll have to explore that with him. 01:19:57 im looking at it for a cheap plasma table 01:20:11 just plug a USB in and away you go 01:20:22 I can see that. 01:20:54 After your horror stories about mach2 stopping for a half second... 01:20:59 This would be very good. 01:21:00 yeah 01:21:04 screwed me that did 01:21:09 0.5 second? 01:21:14 4 seconds sometimes 01:21:23 Don't you hate it when that happens. 01:21:33 my customers did yes :) 01:21:50 some of them phoned up to explain 01:22:27 Were they making references to your kin? 01:22:32 one of them (quite rightly) declined the opportunity to hand over all the money 01:23:12 That kind of thing hurts everyone. 01:23:15 in the end, I decided not ot ship the orders I has, as it was just going to be more trouble 01:23:18 There are no winners. 01:23:21 right 01:23:30 and the task planner was the worst bit 01:23:39 even without the stopping 01:24:03 a bit like early EMC, it doesntcope well with low steps/mm 01:24:17 at say 20 steps/mm it sucks. 01:24:20 bigtime. 01:24:40 imagine a 20mm hole. 01:24:58 cut 5mm chamfers on it at 45 degrees. 01:25:11 so its a 10mm wide slot, with curved ends 01:25:41 now, all you have to do is convince the metalworker that it is round really 01:26:10 I can just imagine what the customer said about that... 01:26:15 I gave up asking for a fix on that one in the end 01:26:42 whatever, we fit proper controls now 01:26:47 I had one customer complaining about a 0.0003 step at the quadrature switch. 01:26:53 heh 01:27:08 threaten him with Mach2 next time :) 01:27:15 He said, "look at this" and he held it up to a light. 01:27:28 Okay. Good plan. 01:27:48 to be fair, Mach2 beats EMC in 2 crucial areas 01:27:56 Thanks for taking the time with 2002 01:28:00 np 01:28:17 ? 01:28:31 The two areas are? 01:28:33 user macros and GUI configuration by click and drool 01:28:46 even a windows weenie can do it. 01:28:53 Yes. I think you are correct. 01:29:12 still ... were getting there 01:29:31 did you see my Mach2 screen layout? 01:29:36 NIST wrote a paper a while back about each variable output from a routine 01:29:58 uh huh 01:30:02 having it's own set of characteristics that are available. 01:30:24 I would like to see your gui. 01:30:43 http://www.rapidcut.co.uk/images/screenshot.png 01:30:53 go on, the NIST thing ... 01:32:04 The idea was that if a variable was a float or an int, it would ship it's range and units and such right with it. 01:32:14 right ... 01:32:24 in some xml-like stream 01:32:36 Then the HMI could discover possible widgets to use to display that variable when it was needed. 01:32:43 right, 01:33:15 I can't remember exactly what format or formats they were proposing. 01:33:19 some file in the HMI tells the thing how to lay out the widgets 01:33:49 That's the idea. An HMI writer would work up the rules rather than the specific layout. 01:33:59 right 01:34:24 let the things pack the screen and shuffle each other up 01:34:31 There is just a bit of that in tkemc and mini. The axis position displays and offsets grow to the number of axes defined. 01:34:39 right 01:34:52 I did some work on that with my rewrite that never got finished 01:35:00 the 'components' based thing 01:35:09 (long time ago) 01:35:12 Yes I remember some of it. 01:35:20 still out there ... somwhere 01:35:31 I know the feeling. 01:35:53 so many projects, so little time 01:36:02 I've been working for a bit on a new variable loop thing. 01:36:10 ?? 01:36:20 Makes most of the EMC interface into a state machine. 01:36:26 ahh :) 01:36:36 thats probably heading in the right direction 01:36:39 You know how you can register a variable with the tickle loop. 01:36:52 I remember a bit 01:36:56 Most all of the gui would be regulated by variables. 01:37:00 right 01:37:14 And only changed variables would get passed to tickle. 01:37:18 right 01:37:22 that makes sense 01:37:37 the key has to be that it sholdnt matter if the widget is there or not 01:37:38 And that's as far as I've gotten. 01:37:49 Absolutely. 01:38:16 from then, its just a question of making up soem sort of file to determine how and where you stuff the widgets 01:38:43 Yep. And that becomes a thing the end user can manipulate. 01:38:47 right 01:39:15 once you have the file, brewing up a click.and.drool tool to configure it is possible 01:39:23 Want a huge display of the position vars, just spec them. 01:39:30 zackly 01:39:40 thats all mach2 does 01:39:49 Okay. 01:40:02