00:05:48 <robin_sz> robin_sz has joined #emc
00:05:54 <robin_sz> meep!
00:06:24 <robin_sz> * robin_sz has played more with the G2002 now :)
00:07:19 <robin_sz> if as many people as viewed the Wiki, edited or added to the Wiki, it would be about 8 times the size and with 1/10th the number of spelling mistakes by now :)
00:14:00 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz... wanna pass me the g2002? :) I got my mill up... just have to power it on... and I'll do that in a bit... watching science news.
00:14:02 <A-L-P-H-A> <-- geek
00:14:24 <A-L-P-H-A> where's the wiki for the g2002?
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00:49:27 <paul_c> yay.. USB zip drives work with BDI-4.12
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01:38:50 <robin_sz> * robin_sz sighs
01:39:22 <robin_sz> hmm ... this Dynamic C compiler seems to need a 'serial number' ... whatever that is
01:39:31 <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries 'com 3'
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02:56:35 <hyde> Hello anyone here? 
02:57:30 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm kinda here... but going to my shop in a sec.
02:58:16 <hyde> Do you know if powerpath is supported in RHEL 3.0? Can it be used with Oracle?
03:04:59 <jepler> probably the wrong channel to ask
03:05:11 <jepler> maybe you want #redhat or something?
03:05:50 <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A is lost
03:06:13 <hyde> per redhat, it would not support emc software. 
03:06:42 <jepler> I don't know what powerpath is, but this channel isn't about RHEL or Oracle
03:07:15 <hyde> is this channel about emc.com?
03:07:30 <jepler> #emc is not related to the software described here: http://www.oracle.com/ecostructure/blueprint_res/design_components_powerpath.htm
03:07:42 <jepler> #emc is about software that controls CNC machines
03:07:56 <picnet> picnet has quit
03:07:57 <jepler> see linuxcnc.org
03:08:01 <hyde> sorry, wrong place ..
03:08:07 <jepler> no problem
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03:10:22 <jepler> cradek was talking about an interesting idea earlier: full-stepping is supposed to give more torque than half-stepping, but the problem is that motor resonance means the motor loses torque at a particular RPM speed
03:11:22 <jepler> so why not use full-stepping except at the resonance frequency, possibly by manipulating the full/half step input of the stepper controller
03:15:23 <jepler> interesting graphs at http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/stepper.html
03:19:54 <jepler> http://www.sapiensman.com/step_motor/stepping%20motors.htm#resonance
03:45:17 <A-L-P-H-A> power on... NOTHING blew! :) hehe good.
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03:51:32 <gezr> my vacume system sorta works :)
03:52:06 <gezr> I dont have the power to pull through my little tube filter things so who knows how it will work once I blast but its cool :)
03:57:18 <cradek> jepler: I guess we're the only ones who thought it was interesting
03:58:22 <gezr>  im not at the console to check much out tonight
04:18:39 <gezr> sweet, It works perfectly
04:22:35 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, the blast cabinet?
04:22:39 <gezr> yeah
04:23:12 <A-L-P-H-A> cool
04:23:47 <gezr> its not a perfect seal, and the damn wood is self destructing a bit but other then that, its really easy to see, easy to get to the work piece, and its really nice, I have new suction tube to install, and new air line to the gun to install, the sections I have now are really short, and my breath is fogging up the glass 
04:24:33 <gezr> oh and my super suck, doesnt really have the suck, but I dont see any leaks into the atmosphere so Im happy :)
04:25:56 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, so you should have used sheet metal? :)
04:26:09 <gezr> of course :)
04:26:15 <A-L-P-H-A> hehehe. :)
04:26:21 <gezr> I knew that from the get go
04:26:34 <gezr> but for let me see, can I exclude tools I had to get?
04:26:48 <A-L-P-H-A> well... my mill powers up... haven't sent it a Zaxis step/direction pulse yet...
04:27:09 <gezr> well for about 200 I save 800 bucks  :)
04:27:11 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, harbour frieght has cheap sheet metal benders from time to time.
04:27:24 <A-L-P-H-A> they'd usually do the trick
04:27:30 <gezr> this thing only has to last for abour 10 more parts :)
04:28:22 <A-L-P-H-A> oh... that's silly now to me.
04:28:34 <gezr> why is that?
04:28:39 <gezr> and sweet about your mill :)
04:29:03 <A-L-P-H-A> umm... it's like why not just pass it to some bodyshop to sandblast the parts for you? [or did you have fun building it?]
04:29:41 <gezr> I just wanted to have the fun building it, and if I make a mistake its my mistake :)
04:29:58 <A-L-P-H-A> what did you use for the transparent window?
04:30:03 <alpha1125> alpha1125 has quit
04:30:21 <gezr> tempered glass about 1/4 inch thick with a mylar liner stuck on the inside
04:30:48 <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
04:31:43 <gezr> I guess if I included my time on the thing, it just got really expensive, but I got to do stuff Ive never really done before 
04:31:56 <A-L-P-H-A> that's cool though.]
04:32:15 <A-L-P-H-A> For me, I have access to a bodyshop to get stuff sandblasted... it'd just be me bringing some beer. :)
04:33:12 <gezr> I dont know many shops, Im sure i could find one to do it, or do it at, this setup is perfect, just the right pressure everything
04:33:28 <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
04:33:32 <A-L-P-H-A> glad it worked out for you.
04:35:50 <picnet> picnet has quit
04:39:10 <gezr> i have to go to sleep now, clean up time tommrow, then back to rebuilding :)
04:41:09 <A-L-P-H-A> later
05:09:09 <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight... all axis on the mill are running. :) SWEET
05:09:31 <A-L-P-H-A> now to measure the backlash.
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08:11:31 <A-L-P-H-A> hello...
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08:45:50 <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
08:45:51 <anonimasu> hello
08:49:10 <robin_sz> 'ello
08:54:22 <picnet> picnet has quit
08:57:52 <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
08:57:55 <anonimasu> err
08:58:00 <anonimasu> what's up?
08:58:19 <anonimasu> I am writing a algorithm for positioning a huydralic cylinder..
08:58:30 <anonimasu> for a racecar for a handicapped guy
08:58:58 <robin_sz> hmmm
09:00:26 <anonimasu> somthing like a PID loop..
09:01:08 <anonimasu> if expected position is higher then the position apply more gain to make up for it
09:12:10 <anonimasu> :)
09:15:27 <A-L-P-H-A> morning folks.
09:16:52 <anonimasu> good morning alpha
09:16:59 <A-L-P-H-A> hey, I got a question, electrical.
09:17:12 <A-L-P-H-A> You know how AC, there's a live, dead and ground.
09:17:12 <A-L-P-H-A> Lets say I'm making a power supply... I have the dead and live going to a transformer...
09:17:12 <A-L-P-H-A> Wall Socket -> Transformer (120VAC to 60VAC) to a bridge rectifier -> to some medium sized caps to filter out the DC current.
09:17:12 <A-L-P-H-A> Now my question is, I know I should hook the ground from the wall to frame of the case,
09:17:12 <A-L-P-H-A> which in turn is touching the transformer.
09:17:13 <A-L-P-H-A> My question is should I hook the ground/NEGATIVE on the bridge rectifier / DC segment to the chassis/wall ground as well?  Is this the proper way?
09:17:45 <anonimasu> I have no idea really
09:18:11 <A-L-P-H-A> neither do I :(
09:18:22 <anonimasu> I think you should hook your ground off the socket to the chassis..
09:18:33 <A-L-P-H-A> that was said. :)
09:18:46 <anonimasu> since you have voltage on your bridge rectifier -
09:18:47 <anonimasu> ;)
09:18:48 <A-L-P-H-A> but my question is should the DC segment of the ground/negative hook to the chasis?
09:20:02 <anonimasu> http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/AntBk.pdf
09:20:14 <anonimasu> :)
09:20:33 <anonimasu> there might be somthing in there..
09:20:34 <anonimasu> I think
09:20:45 <anonimasu> I'd look a bit more at it or get ahold of my father and ask him..
09:20:52 <anonimasu> but since I am working I dont have lots of time :/
09:21:06 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm thinking of hitting the dollar store, and buying candles to melt to mill.  Reusable material... just melt it to a block... screw up... melt it again, and do play again.
09:21:22 <anonimasu> yeah
09:21:26 <anonimasu> that'd be a good idea
09:21:26 <anonimasu> :)
09:21:32 <A-L-P-H-A> Cheap, and reusable.
09:21:41 <A-L-P-H-A> and no worried of breaking a end mill...
09:21:59 <robin_sz> you can buy wax for candle making in blocks, usually like 20lb blocks for much less than candles
09:22:37 <A-L-P-H-A> WHAT? really... hmm... k, hit the craft store instead... but that's out in the east end...
09:22:42 <A-L-P-H-A> 20 lb BLOCKS?
09:22:47 <robin_sz> the candle making shops also sell some stuff, 
09:22:49 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... :) hehe... fun.
09:22:53 <robin_sz> forget what
09:23:05 <robin_sz> that you melt in with it, and it makes hard wax
09:23:16 <robin_sz> sodium stearate maybe??
09:23:42 <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking of just using some pam, and a muffin tray, or a bread loaf tray.
09:23:46 <A-L-P-H-A> pam = oil spray.
09:24:11 <robin_sz> shrug.
09:24:22 <robin_sz> whatevers easiest
09:24:37 <A-L-P-H-A> what would you recommend?
09:24:54 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just thinking ease... and what I could do with a 1200Watt heat gun.
09:25:30 <robin_sz> you want suggestions ;)
09:25:40 <A-L-P-H-A> I asked. :)
09:25:44 <A-L-P-H-A> I do'nt know if I'll get.
09:25:50 <robin_sz> wax and an old pan
09:27:43 <A-L-P-H-A> that's what I was thinking already... dollar store has cheap stuff like that... but how much would 20lbs of wax cost?
09:28:13 <robin_sz> less than 20lbs of candles
09:28:31 <robin_sz> wahtever, maybe dollar stor is nearer
09:30:31 <anonimasu> heh..
09:30:43 <anonimasu> work is so crowded today :/
09:30:44 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got suppliers for candles and stuff around here... just found them in the yellow pages.
09:30:53 <robin_sz> stearic acid is the hardner,
09:31:00 <A-L-P-H-A> now all I have to do, is wait 4 and half hours before they open.
09:31:06 <robin_sz> $7 for a 5lb bag
09:31:09 <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, go postal... :)
09:31:31 <A-L-P-H-A> think I'll need the hardener, if I just want to mill through it?
09:31:44 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just probably doing this to do test parts... not for casting... [which I will probably do later]
09:31:48 <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I work for my father's company..
09:31:55 <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: going postal would be  bad idea :)
09:32:02 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, probably then.
09:32:08 <A-L-P-H-A> if you want to inherit the company and all.
09:32:11 <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
09:32:21 <anonimasu> but I got like 3 words out of him about what I am working on
09:32:38 <A-L-P-H-A> wow... COMMUNICATION! awesome. :)
09:32:39 <robin_sz> a quick search reveals candle making shops sell wax for around $1 / lb
09:33:05 <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
09:33:16 <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: usually it's better then this, but today is full :)
09:33:26 <A-L-P-H-A> what do you guys do/make?
09:33:54 <anonimasu> I program PLC's..
09:33:56 <anonimasu> :)
09:34:48 <anonimasu> err and interfaces for them
09:34:58 <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
09:35:20 <A-L-P-H-A> I did realtime data logging for a paper mill... I know a little about them... but it's been like 5 years since I did it.
09:35:33 <A-L-P-H-A> used the output from the plcs, and stored them in a database.
09:35:35 <robin_sz> hmm. 11lb blocks seem to be the standard
09:35:46 <anonimasu> right now, I am building some control algorithms for controlling the clutch for a racecar for a handicapped guy
09:36:05 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, what kind of wax as well.
09:36:24 <robin_sz> this place had allsorts! .. like 30 kinds
09:36:39 <A-L-P-H-A> what's the website?
09:36:43 <robin_sz> http://www.swanscandles.com/wholesale.htm
09:37:03 <robin_sz> higher mlet poitns are harde
09:37:04 <robin_sz> are
09:37:42 <anonimasu> it's fun :)
09:39:06 <A-L-P-H-A> high melting point waxes are harder in nature.
09:39:12 <A-L-P-H-A> is that what you ment?
09:39:24 <robin_sz> yeah
09:39:39 <robin_sz> too early to type straight :)
09:39:57 <A-L-P-H-A> it's 4:42am here. :(
09:40:12 <robin_sz> go to bed
09:40:30 <A-L-P-H-A> can't... too excited about my mill working. :)
09:40:34 <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
09:40:44 <robin_sz> :)))
09:40:53 <A-L-P-H-A> know hwen you were a little kid, and when you got a new toy... that was soooo cool, you couldn't sleep and just played with it?
09:41:31 <anonimasu> hehe
09:41:35 <anonimasu> I am still that way..
09:45:41 <anonimasu> :D
09:46:28 <anonimasu> hm, actually I only need a PI and not a derevative control loop for this :)
09:46:55 <anonimasu> err PD..
09:49:25 <anonimasu> I dont think I need a correction map either..
09:50:13 <anonimasu> the precision of the measurements will be about 0.024 at the cylinder..
09:50:16 <anonimasu> :)
09:55:22 <robin_sz> seems the G2002 has a slight desing fault ...
09:55:33 <anonimasu> really?
09:55:46 <robin_sz> the interrupt rate is too high
09:56:27 <anonimasu> ok
09:56:28 <robin_sz> 1ms. the moving average queue is 128 bytes long, so thats 1/8th of a second
09:57:05 <robin_sz> it can only do truly predictive stops if your machine can go from full speed ot dead stop in 1/8th of a second
09:57:42 <anonimasu> have you told mariss about it?
09:57:49 <robin_sz> yeah, its on the list
09:58:11 <robin_sz> furtunately, the interrupt rate is jumperable
09:58:22 <anonimasu> nice
09:59:25 <robin_sz> unfortunately, it does 1ms (1024hz), 2048, 4096 and 8192
09:59:52 <robin_sz> fast, too fast and much too fast :)
10:00:01 <anonimasu> bbl
10:00:02 <anonimasu> lunch
10:00:36 <anonimasu> will that be taken care of in the next rev?
10:00:49 <robin_sz> who knows, might be solvable in software
10:00:57 <robin_sz> skip alternate interrrupts
10:01:01 <anonimasu> ah ok
10:01:05 <anonimasu> anyways bbl
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10:44:34 <A-L-P-H-A> that sucked.
10:44:41 <A-L-P-H-A> I just spent like 40 minutes packing up something.
10:45:09 <A-L-P-H-A> actually, an hour.
10:50:42 <robin_sz> * robin_sz does happy dance
10:50:51 <robin_sz> new 'puter has arrived :)
10:51:24 <A-L-P-H-A> tell me it's not a mac mini
10:52:17 <robin_sz> hell no!
10:52:22 <robin_sz> its a Dell :)
10:52:24 <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A nods.
10:52:30 <A-L-P-H-A> Dell's are good.
10:52:36 <A-L-P-H-A> I've had a nice laptop from them.
10:52:38 <robin_sz> mmmm. that they are
10:52:39 <A-L-P-H-A> that I put through hell.
10:52:45 <robin_sz> me too :)
10:52:51 <robin_sz> inspiron 8000 for me
10:53:06 <A-L-P-H-A> I had an inspiron 3800, like 5 years ago.
10:53:07 <picnet> picnet has quit
10:53:11 <A-L-P-H-A> maybe even longer
10:53:13 <A-L-P-H-A> 6?
10:53:18 <robin_sz> yeah, they are great
10:53:21 <A-L-P-H-A> 2000. so 5.
10:53:33 <robin_sz> new machine is a dual 2.8 ghz Xeon 
10:53:42 <A-L-P-H-A> work paid for most of it, and let me keep it when I left.
10:53:52 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not too big of a fan of intel.
10:54:17 <robin_sz> its that or sun I guess
10:54:37 <A-L-P-H-A> I like amd
10:54:48 <A-L-P-H-A> always have... better bang for my buck.
10:54:49 <robin_sz> got a nice sun box with 4 blades, that works
10:54:51 <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 05:57:14 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (63% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 711/1024MB (69.43%), C: 59.84gb of 75.42gb free, D: 23.56gb of 39.05gb free, E: 135.81gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2wks 4days 17hrs 58mins 3secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 6hrs 56mins 16secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
10:55:10 <A-L-P-H-A> crap... what keeps taking up so much memory????
10:55:15 <robin_sz> amd, I have "issues" with amd sometimes
10:55:24 <robin_sz> easy, thats "windows" 
10:56:14 <A-L-P-H-A> err. virus scanner = 52megs. java = 48megs. outlook = 44 megs. firefox = 40 megs. acrobat = 38 megs. word = 32 megs. mirc = 20 megs. explorer 21meg.
10:56:15 <A-L-P-H-A> GAH!
10:56:49 <robin_sz> we looked at a dual opteron box, but went xeon in the end, now .. if I can just get Debian to recognise the raid controller ....
10:59:42 <A-L-P-H-A> I am determined to get this bracket finished today.
11:01:47 <A-L-P-H-A> need to buy some 1-2-3 block set, a Vblock set.  what other toys? :)
11:01:56 <A-L-P-H-A> store opens in another 2 hours! :)
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12:31:54 <anonimasu> :)
12:32:03 <anonimasu> iab
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13:53:49 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all.  There's news up on the freenode website---please take a look ( http://freenode.net/news.shtml ) .... contents:  receipts for 2004 donations; PDPC 2005 fundraiser has begun; network outages in 17 hours.  Have a great afternoon, and thank you for using freenode!
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14:14:43 <anonimasu> hey alex
14:18:38 <alex_joni> hey anon
14:23:36 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
14:27:28 <robin_sz> MEEEEP!
14:27:36 <alex_joni> sweep
14:27:47 <robin_sz> another machine nicely killed :)
14:27:56 <alex_joni> what machine?
14:28:00 <robin_sz> server
14:28:05 <alex_joni> coo
14:28:24 <robin_sz> nice new dell, ran for 90 minutes, committed suicide
14:28:34 <alex_joni> huh.. what happened?
14:28:45 <robin_sz> its ... well, dead.
14:28:46 <robin_sz> wont post
14:29:11 <anonimasu> call tech support.
14:29:11 <anonimasu> :D
14:29:26 <robin_sz> done that, they had me strip the machine right down to parts
14:29:36 <robin_sz> still wont post
14:29:48 <robin_sz> enginneer is on his wway :)
14:35:08 <anonimasu> nice
14:35:18 <alex_joni> * alex_joni is worn out...
14:35:30 <anonimasu> I am going out to look at the car I am building this stuff for tonight
14:36:07 <anonimasu> ^_^
14:36:10 <alex_joni> I'm going home
14:36:11 <alex_joni> bye
14:36:14 <anonimasu> triying this tomorrow
14:36:16 <anonimasu> goodnight
14:36:18 <anonimasu> err
14:36:18 <anonimasu> bye
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14:42:55 <robin_sz> sigh ... I was so looking forward to playing with that server too!
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15:38:02 <robin_sz> * robin_sz restores the damage done by some wiki spammer
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15:41:14 <cradek> robin_sz: again??
15:42:01 <robin_sz> again? first time its happened init?
15:42:13 <cradek> I cleaned up one thing yesterday
15:42:16 <robin_sz> oh.
15:42:17 <cradek> I assumed someone else cleaned up more
15:42:29 <robin_sz> maybe we need a password
15:42:50 <robin_sz> I'll firewall it of from the tw*t that did it anyway :)
15:43:08 <cradek> it was a dynamic IP yesterday, so that won't do any good.
15:43:48 <robin_sz> I was planning on firewalling the entire /24
15:44:36 <robin_sz> ive removed the old wiki.pl script
15:44:48 <robin_sz> only the emcinfo.pl script is in place now
15:47:01 <robin_sz> ipchains -A input -l -s  193.188.105.16/16 -d  195.82.105.0/24 -j DENY
15:47:02 <cradek> ok, I took the mention of the old path off the main page
15:47:52 <robin_sz> bastards eh, 
15:48:34 <robin_sz> perhaps a public non-editable one, and a page with a nice gif showing the password and link to the editable one.
15:50:29 <robin_sz> the only good thing is, it only takes moments to put it back the way it was ... just view the previous version, edit it and save it.
15:51:29 <cradek> yeah
15:51:53 <robin_sz> I wouldnt mind, but it was just a load of pr0n links ..
15:51:58 <robin_sz> and they are all crap!
15:52:11 <cradek> without using <pre> how do I make a string in the middle of a line a fixed-width font?
15:52:23 <robin_sz> umm
15:52:28 <robin_sz> <tt>?
15:53:00 <cradek> yep thanks
16:07:31 <robin_sz> hmmm ...
16:07:41 <robin_sz> I think I might have set the editing password ...
16:08:42 <robin_sz> if anyone cares, select preferences, and enter 'emc' as your password :)
16:09:24 <cradek> I can edit the front page without a password
16:09:33 <robin_sz> dang, 
16:13:06 <robin_sz> try now
16:13:36 <cradek> now all pages say they are read-only
16:13:48 <robin_sz> select 'preferences'
16:13:56 <jepler> """Isn't using steppers like using MS Windows? hehe- jk.
16:13:57 <jepler> """
16:13:59 <cradek> I filled that out last time (I was user 1020)
16:14:01 <robin_sz> change your pw to emc
16:14:02 <cradek> now it says I am 1021
16:14:09 <robin_sz> lucky you
16:14:26 <cradek> oh it's not saved in my cookies, it's just for that session?
16:14:30 <jepler> steppers sure are simple...
16:14:50 <robin_sz> I thought it was saved in cookies
16:15:05 <jepler> cradek: don't you use a proxy that makes most cookies session cookies?
16:15:08 <cradek> it's not working for me...
16:15:12 <robin_sz> hmmm
16:15:40 <cradek> jepler: ummmm I don't remember
16:15:56 <robin_sz> ok, not password then, administrator password
16:16:01 <robin_sz> password is something else
16:16:02 <cradek> aha
16:16:06 <cradek> ok that worked
16:16:12 <robin_sz> kewl
16:16:33 <robin_sz> I'll add a note to the 'howto' ...
16:16:34 <cradek> are you going to put in a gif that tells how to edit?
16:16:46 <robin_sz> I'll piut it in the BasicSteps
16:17:02 <robin_sz> im assuming it is being done by spamming bots, not humans
16:17:14 <cradek> humans are easier to keep up with
16:17:45 <cradek> jepler: well I like steppers too.  They're cheap and easy and can certainly move a machine around.
16:20:42 <jepler> I don't have any idea of the speeds a servo-based system would provide
16:21:05 <cradek> for the same money, approximately 0 ipm
16:22:07 <robin_sz> at the low $ end, you get more bang from steppes than servos for your buck
16:22:18 <robin_sz> at the high end .. well, steppers dont do high end
16:22:55 <cradek> robin_sz: you can get some awfully big steppers
16:23:01 <robin_sz> that said, a bige NEMA 42 stepper, expecilly a neo magnet one 
16:23:15 <robin_sz> driven with many amps and big volts is pretty damn impressive
16:23:15 <cradek> they are very powerful but just can't give the same rapid speed
16:23:26 <robin_sz> well, if you gear them right ...
16:24:18 <robin_sz> but yeah
16:24:37 <robin_sz> if you plot the load graph of a system it goes sorta
16:24:42 <robin_sz>  /
16:24:45 <robin_sz> upwards ...
16:24:52 <cradek> I guess my steppers are still pretty darn strong spinning at 500rpm
16:25:00 <robin_sz> the torque graph of a stepper goes -\
16:25:07 <cradek> so the right gearing would give a nice rapid rate
16:25:20 <robin_sz> 500 rpm, 
16:25:25 <robin_sz> 10 rps
16:25:31 <robin_sz> 2 khz?
16:26:49 <robin_sz> what I need is the Dynamic C compiler ..
16:27:00 <robin_sz> well, the serial number anyway ;)
16:27:59 <cradek> your minutes must have a different number of seconds than mine
16:28:19 <robin_sz> it was an egineers aproximation
16:28:27 <cradek> I know, just teasing
16:28:30 <robin_sz> ;)
16:30:28 <cradek> I think I have 3.3kHz step rate (8000 steps/inch 25 inch/min)
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16:54:44 <paul_c> Morning Steve
16:55:23 <SteveStallings> Morning Paul. I see the wiki got locked down. Did we get more that the one spam?
16:55:32 <robin_sz> loads :)
16:55:53 <robin_sz> the password is 'emc' in the administrator password box in preferences
16:56:06 <robin_sz> as detailed on the 'basics' page
16:56:10 <SteveStallings> Could you tell if they used the wiki or the emcinfo address?
16:56:22 <robin_sz> I could if I looked :)
16:56:57 <SteveStallings> I am hoping that the emcinfo address would be sufficient. Logging in will deter minor edits.
16:57:31 <robin_sz> todays was all wiki.pl
16:57:51 <robin_sz> once youve set it in your prefs, its sotred in a acookie
16:57:57 <robin_sz> stored
16:58:21 <SteveStallings> Guess I will have to let your cookies slip through...  8-)
16:58:21 <robin_sz> you should not need to worry about it ever again??
16:58:35 <robin_sz> ooh, you cookie blocker you
16:58:43 <SteveStallings> damn right!
16:59:19 <SteveStallings> when you run M$ shit you have to be very careful
16:59:26 <robin_sz> you can unlock the site if you want
16:59:37 <robin_sz> im not that fussed
16:59:51 <robin_sz> you'll need the admin password to do that ...
17:00:05 <SteveStallings> any consensus on unlocking it, anyone here?
17:00:55 <cradek> I'm neutral
17:00:56 <robin_sz> admin pw lets you add people to the banned list by ip too
17:01:22 <robin_sz> i'll be happy if its twice the size by this time next week
17:01:38 <SteveStallings> I did a lot of editing to get special characters to display, but not sure what or if anything should be done in your short URL examples on the Basics page.
17:02:13 <robin_sz> shrug
17:02:20 <robin_sz> not caring that much
17:02:36 <SteveStallings> I guess the WiKi wise will understand the quirks.
17:03:02 <robin_sz> I place higher importance on the EMC info
17:03:12 <slomo> slomo has joined #emc
17:03:21 <robin_sz> and higher importanc on content over presentation anyway
17:03:33 <SteveStallings> agreed, but I want to help and I am not much use on compile/install stuff
17:03:39 <robin_sz> :)
17:03:49 <robin_sz> well, you;re doing just fine then :)
17:04:18 <robin_sz> all Ive doen is copy and paste stuff
17:04:37 <SteveStallings> nothing grows without a seed
17:04:44 <robin_sz> we could do with adding some info on jmk;s HAL stuff
17:04:49 <slomo> knowledge base is looking good !
17:06:24 <SteveStallings> JMK will probably jump in over the weekend
17:07:03 <SteveStallings> for that matter, we have not announced the WiKi on the list yet, wanted to get a seed there first, guess we are ready enough?
17:10:08 <picnet> picnet has quit
17:13:20 <robin_sz> looks seedy to me
17:13:33 <cradek> sure
17:13:36 <SteveStallings> 8-)
17:19:33 <SteveStallings> just announced the WiKi on the developers list, let it build a bit then announce on users list
17:44:19 <stevestallings2> stevestallings2 has joined #emc
18:00:11 <paul_c> * paul_c makes a few small edits to the wiki.
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18:05:31 <robin_sz> stevestallings2: re your questions: I *think* you can do 99% of that with a style sheet, but its just running te 'usemod' wiki script, google for usemod and you have all the info youlll ever need
18:11:31 <stevestallings2> found it and tried to message you, only to find I was disconnected yet again  8-(
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20:03:28 <CIA-temp160> CIA-temp160 is now known as CIA-7
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20:35:00 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. There's news up on the freenode website, for those who may have missed it. Please take a look ( http://freenode.net/news.shtml ) .... contents:  receipts for 2004 donations; PDPC 2005 fundraiser has begun; network outages (now in about 10.5 hours).  Have a great night, and thank you for using freenode!
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21:18:51 <robin_sz> m eeeee p
21:19:43 <cradek> hello
21:19:48 <robin_sz> :>
21:20:30 <picnet> picnet has quit
21:38:34 <les> howdy
21:40:25 <cradek> hi les
21:40:59 <les> just missed another ice storm
21:41:08 <les> so far
21:41:14 <robin_sz> is that good?
21:41:25 <les> temp exactly 32 all day
21:41:38 <robin_sz> blimey, thats hot.
21:41:40 <paul_c> 70 plus over here...
21:41:46 <les> yeah loosing power is not good
21:42:01 <les> 70...yikes
21:42:13 <les> 70's where my folks live
21:42:34 <robin_sz> so, hows the resident painter?
21:43:00 <les> Well there was not time in the customer's scedule for me to make a painting bot
21:43:18 <robin_sz> ahh ...
21:43:23 <robin_sz> so you bought one
21:43:23 <les> so we just worked out a deal in a meeting a little while ago
21:43:54 <les> No...my customer will take the units unfinished for now
21:44:04 <robin_sz> coo.
21:44:16 <les> and he will outsource a quicker but not as good finish
21:44:32 <robin_sz> so, thats your sander laid off then
21:44:39 <les> After the hunting season is over I will then build the paint bot
21:45:06 <les> No I had to work that out....we will sand
21:45:18 <les> His work load will actually go up
21:45:38 <les> Since I will be running the machine more
21:45:59 <les> Trying to look at my figures for how much painting costed
21:46:00 <robin_sz> but hes only got one sand now
21:46:23 <les> I get $1.58 total finishing
21:46:37 <les> at 1.3 burden rate
21:46:58 <les> (as a painter I make $10/hr)
21:47:00 <les> haha
21:47:06 <robin_sz> overpaid!
21:47:16 <les> but 0.50 is the first sand
21:47:23 <les> will still do that
21:48:06 <les> So I can drop the price by .094 for sanded but unfinished
21:48:50 <les> But that begs the question...I seem to be doing finishing with no profit
21:48:57 <les> well by that analysis
21:49:24 <les> Before it had to be done to get the big value added of cnc machining
21:50:11 <les> So a bot will have no profit with it's operation?
21:50:29 <les> hmm I had better fudge some numbers so it looks ok haha
21:51:38 <les> Customer loves the finish but realizes that the cnc operator being a painter is what's killing us
21:51:50 <les> I am happy about this...I think
21:52:39 <les> So then every 3 min 20 sec the emc will make...
21:53:19 <les> $4.56
21:53:24 <les> sound ok?
21:55:18 <les> hmmmm $82.90 /hr....that's only kinda ok
21:57:46 <les> OK enough of this accounting bs haha
21:59:08 <A-L-P-H-A> this is weird... I can't set my backlash...
21:59:28 <A-L-P-H-A> I move it 0.02" the same direction as it was setup.
21:59:32 <les> Do you really need it?
21:59:37 <gezr> hello ya'll
21:59:49 <les> hi gezr
21:59:51 <A-L-P-H-A> Move back 0.02" and it's reading 0.002".  Fine.  So I set the backlash to 0.002" in software.
22:00:29 <A-L-P-H-A> and when I go back and test it again... I move in the same direction, and test it again I still get 0.002" backlash... after setting it 0.002" [and yes backlash comp was turned off to begin with]
22:00:44 <A-L-P-H-A> stupid ball screws.
22:01:08 <A-L-P-H-A> the other axis I get something stupid like 0.0001" of backlash... the needle just moves a hair. so I set that to be zero.
22:01:24 <les> well I could see where it might be usefull...but for 3-d contouring I have to consider thar backlash error has a rectangular probabiliy density
22:01:36 <les> that not thar
22:01:38 <les> haha
22:02:13 <A-L-P-H-A> les, what does that mean? "rectangular probabiliy density"
22:02:46 <les> It means lost motion IN GENERAL can not be predicted
22:02:52 <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : how are you testing, down then up, then back down, or from up to down then up?
22:02:58 <les> In special cases it can
22:03:16 <les> like straight lines
22:03:28 <les> but cut a circle and....
22:04:32 <les> I don't have backlash but I do have stick slip
22:04:52 <gezr> thats a fun one
22:05:00 <les> max position error I get from that is about 0.0002 in
22:05:28 <les> I could prob make it go away with careful feedforward tuning
22:05:49 <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : you may be a bit tight, try moving the axis a full inch or so
22:06:04 <les> integral helps to but there is a limit to how much one can use
22:06:29 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yes.
22:06:42 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, I tried moving 0.050"...
22:06:49 <A-L-P-H-A> I'll try a full inch.
22:07:06 <les> servo right alpha?
22:07:11 <A-L-P-H-A> steppers.
22:07:15 <les> ok
22:07:20 <A-L-P-H-A> it's repeatable though...
22:07:34 <A-L-P-H-A> I tried for like 30 minutes, at different (albeit only 1" different) spots.
22:07:45 <A-L-P-H-A> 1" away from that spot.
22:08:12 <A-L-P-H-A> like the backlash is 0.002 to 0.0018" at different locations.
22:08:41 <les> ballscrew?
22:09:25 <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
22:09:43 <A-L-P-H-A> steppers + gecko g201 + ball screws
22:09:59 <les> Sounds about right for a rooled screw
22:10:08 <les> rolled
22:10:09 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, they were rolled.
22:10:19 <A-L-P-H-A> hey! I can afford rolled.  I can't afford ground
22:10:39 <A-L-P-H-A> $200 setup, versus $3000 setup.
22:10:52 <les> I use the hiwin precision rolled with oversize balls
22:10:58 <les> zero backlash
22:11:01 <A-L-P-H-A> les, how much?
22:11:34 <les> 2.5 meter screw with 2 nuts was $380 last time I checked
22:11:45 <les> cheap!!!
22:12:06 <les> 1" diam
22:12:27 <cradek> 1/4-20 allthread is cheaper
22:12:38 <les> but oversize ball preloading may not last as long as other metods
22:12:39 <A-L-P-H-A> I had about 1.25meters, 1"dia. with two nuts, for I think, $180USD + shipping.
22:13:10 <A-L-P-H-A> I do have another ballscrew, which I may use to physically compensate
22:13:21 <les> I checked the lead accuracy of the HIWIN screws and it was much better than spec
22:13:23 <A-L-P-H-A> with a die spring, or a disc spring between the two nuts.
22:13:44 <les> wwhat little error there is is just a constant pitch error
22:13:51 <les> can be mapped out
22:14:06 <A-L-P-H-A> Dear Lloyd,
22:14:06 <A-L-P-H-A>  
22:14:06 <A-L-P-H-A> Without access to the screws, I can’t tell you the lead accuracy.  However, the lead accuracy tolerance for all rolled screws (the kind we make) is +/-.003 - .008” per ft. and we are usually at the low end of this range.
22:14:06 <A-L-P-H-A>  
22:14:06 <A-L-P-H-A> Best Regards,
22:14:07 <A-L-P-H-A> ROTON PRODUCTS, INC.
22:14:42 <les> Yes I use bellville preload on one bearing end
22:14:54 <les> Oh you work for Rotron?
22:14:58 <A-L-P-H-A> Oh yeah, I don't have a support for the other end.
22:15:06 <A-L-P-H-A> No, that's Dear Lloyd... it was to me.
22:15:18 <les> haha ok
22:15:23 <A-L-P-H-A> it was addressed to me, by a Guy named S. Allen Lochmoeller
22:15:35 <A-L-P-H-A> nice people at roton.
22:15:39 <A-L-P-H-A> pleasant to deal with.
22:16:16 <gezr> I dont think what your seeing is in your screw
22:16:23 <les> I would imagine with oversize ball preload that the balls themselves are the firtst thing to go
22:16:29 <les> first
22:16:38 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, probably not... it's probably my CRAPPY bracket on that axis.
22:16:46 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm gonna make a new one for it asap.
22:16:49 <gezr> .002 isnt crapy
22:17:13 <A-L-P-H-A> well, the other doesn't have any backlash... though that bracket is nice. :) hehe
22:17:23 <gezr> if I was you, and things are working, ide run it for a while, and evaluate what types of modifications are needed
22:17:35 <A-L-P-H-A> true.
22:18:04 <A-L-P-H-A> anyone have a Z-axis design for a drill/mill they don't mind sharing?
22:18:34 <A-L-P-H-A> so far, I'm thinking of mounting a acme screw (3/8-10tpi acme, non-standard), and spinning the nut.
22:18:58 <gezr> thats a wicked small screw
22:19:16 <A-L-P-H-A> I have 1/2-10tpi acme, with a acme tap and all.
22:19:30 <paul_c> BP mount a massive hollow ballscrew to the top of the quill and spin the nut..
22:19:31 <gezr> flying screw is a sweet design, several machines use that method
22:19:58 <les> must be made for it though
22:20:08 <les> dynamically balanced
22:20:10 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... maybe I'll get 3ft of precision ground 1/2-10tpi acme... and use that.
22:20:25 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm spinning it with a stepper, how fast could I get?
22:20:27 <les> and special construction so grease does not sling out
22:21:03 <paul_c> If you're going for ground screw, why not use ball rather than acme ?
22:21:34 <les> Not that fast I guess...but it still helps some by not having to machine ballscrew ends
22:21:34 <A-L-P-H-A> cause i'm worried about the z-axis falling down when I power off the machine.
22:21:51 <les> yes
22:22:11 <A-L-P-H-A> precision ground acme is cheap, and I can make brass gears with an XL timing gear patter, and an acme tapped hole inside.
22:22:14 <les> meet MR spring
22:22:23 <gezr> 10pitch shouldnt freewheel
22:22:34 <A-L-P-H-A> 4tpi freewheels.
22:22:39 <les> right
22:22:46 <les> 5 is just on the edge
22:22:48 <A-L-P-H-A> I was soooooo impressed when I did that. it was SO neat to me.
22:22:54 <gezr> yeah, 4 will, but 10 has a waht 4deg helix?
22:23:58 <les> ALPHA: who machine your ballscrew ends?
22:24:05 <les> machined
22:24:14 <A-L-P-H-A> my neightbour bought in with me the roton ball screws... and he wanted to replace the acme nut (which was messed up, but he fixed) on his X carriage ways.
22:24:41 <A-L-P-H-A> les, I did.  I machined them on my friend lathe.  (die grinder to get the hardening off, and then machined them round.)
22:25:05 <les> I machine ballscrew ends in house ...but it's not fun
22:25:06 <A-L-P-H-A> I was saying, his nut cost $90USD, and the screw cost like $10-15 bucks only.
22:25:35 <A-L-P-H-A> we have someone with an acetyline torch now, so we'll just anneal them this time around.
22:25:44 <A-L-P-H-A> wet rag + burn technique.
22:26:09 <les> I use an angle grinder to cut through the case hardend bit
22:26:15 <les> then carbide
22:26:21 <A-L-P-H-A> that's what we did.
22:26:24 <gezr> ball screws are 20% stronger then cut threads, you could aneal them in an oven right under the broiler for a while
22:26:27 <les> then Themac tool post grinder
22:26:37 <gezr> rolled threads that is, man im tired
22:26:57 <A-L-P-H-A> we didn't ground finish the ends...
22:27:32 <les> get close and sandpaper and a mic works too
22:28:46 <les> The HIWINs are 4140 cr/mo
22:29:11 <les> Rockwell C 58 - 60 outside
22:29:22 <les> C40 or so inside
22:29:49 <les> so one can cut threads ok
22:29:53 <A-L-P-H-A> well, if I ever do another conversion (which I may soon, if I have money) I'll get the hiwins.
22:30:09 <A-L-P-H-A> les, have you done an Z axis conversion?  Any tips?
22:30:43 <les> Alpha: I design the machines rather than convert...
22:30:54 <les> but am about to do a Bridgeport
22:31:09 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still thinking the flying nut design...  So, it'd be plate, bearing, nut/gear, bearing, plate, bracket.  Bolt the plates together.
22:31:15 <les> So heheh I'll let you know
22:31:44 <les> Flying nut is very nice but very expensive
22:32:06 <A-L-P-H-A> how's the very expensive?
22:32:13 <A-L-P-H-A> that*
22:32:32 <les> Well I can only speak for commercial apps but
22:32:45 <les> the transmission etc cost a bunch
22:32:58 <les> I have some drawn up
22:33:04 <A-L-P-H-A> the gear I was thinking, was just an XL gear belt...
22:33:07 <A-L-P-H-A> this guy... sec.
22:33:35 <les> parts cost about $1000/axis for commercial stuff
22:33:50 <les> for the transmission
22:34:06 <les> and that is if you machine it
22:34:44 <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.homecnc.info/Pics/800z-axis-installed.jpg
22:35:38 <les> yours?
22:35:39 <A-L-P-H-A> I love how he tucked it inside.
22:35:40 <A-L-P-H-A> NO!
22:35:42 <A-L-P-H-A> I wish.
22:36:16 <les> looks like acme
22:36:31 <A-L-P-H-A> I think it's actually a ballscrew
22:36:36 <les> must go out for a sec...brb
22:37:10 <A-L-P-H-A> he sells the plans for $45 bucks, which is a little expensive to me, just for plans.
22:38:10 <A-L-P-H-A> his servo prices aren't that bad... but I'm sure I could find cheaper.
22:38:29 <A-L-P-H-A> his servo's don't even include encoders either.
22:53:11 <A-L-P-H-A> Stupid telemarketers... "Can you please take us off your list" "Can I take 3 minutes of your time" "Can you please take us off your list" "it'd just take 3 minutes of your time" "Please take me off your list" "you don't have 3 minutes you can spare?" <hang up>
22:59:45 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
23:02:47 <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Wanna talk, gimme a credit card number so that I can bill you for the time wasted.
23:03:02 <paul_c> Usually works for me ;}
23:04:50 <A-L-P-H-A> haha. :) They were doing a survey... supposedly.  I didn't know or hear it... I was just annoyed.
23:05:02 <A-L-P-H-A> usually their nice and say "sure, no problem" but this person was annoying.
23:09:39 <asdfqwega> If you want to get rid of telemarketers - waste THEIR time
23:10:36 <asdfqwega> I admit, it takes a weird kind of calm to do that
23:11:13 <asdfqwega> But I have a friend who did that
23:11:36 <asdfqwega> Got 'em talking, then "Can you hold on a minute?"
23:11:55 <asdfqwega> Came back twenty minutes later, they were still there
23:12:21 <asdfqwega> Talked with them some more, then "Hang on, I have to take care of something."
23:12:55 <asdfqwega> Get a sandwitch, do some stuff...
23:13:20 <A-L-P-H-A> they hang up after a little while I think.
23:13:20 <asdfqwega> He came back twenty minutes later, and they were still there
23:13:29 <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha
23:13:30 <asdfqwega> I think it was the third time
23:13:52 <asdfqwega> He's really unhappy, though
23:14:04 <A-L-P-H-A> who? your friend, or the telemarketer?
23:14:05 <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha
23:14:06 <asdfqwega> He doesn't have ANY telemarketers call him anymore ;)
23:14:36 <asdfqwega> Can't imagine why
23:15:03 <asdfqwega> He's such a friendly guy...
23:15:35 <A-L-P-H-A> who's the English bloak, "knackered" was the word... I just remembered.
23:15:54 <asdfqwega> Wosname?
23:16:10 <A-L-P-H-A> someone that started with an S. or had an S in their name.
23:16:15 <A-L-P-H-A> I could look in my logs.
23:17:39 <asdfqwega> Hm, I wonder...what's the exact definition/origin of the word 'bloke'?
23:18:34 <asdfqwega> British slang - sometimes, just sometimes, you don't wanna know
23:18:58 <A-L-P-H-A> I think I'm on someone's list now... 2nd telemarketer!
23:19:02 <A-L-P-H-A> 2nd!!!! tonight
23:19:03 <A-L-P-H-A> WTF!!!
23:19:19 <A-L-P-H-A> this time it was a recording.
23:19:47 <asdfqwega> Dang automation - it makes it harder to mess with them
23:21:00 <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking of just leaving the phone and just have them get billed for the long distance time.
23:22:02 <asdfqwega> I was thinking of hooking up a linux system with Festival and a simple automaton
23:22:21 <A-L-P-H-A> automation of what?
23:23:01 <asdfqwega> Just a simple script
23:23:27 <asdfqwega> Maybe something along the lines of Eliza...
23:23:40 <asdfqwega> You know, text -> speech
23:24:12 <A-L-P-H-A> oh. ALICE! :)
23:24:22 <A-L-P-H-A> are you sure it's Eliza? and not Alice?
23:24:28 <asdfqwega> Oh, it's called ALICE now?
23:24:28 <A-L-P-H-A> I could be wrong.
23:24:39 <A-L-P-H-A> No, I think you're right.
23:25:11 <asdfqwega> ALICE might be the IRC chatbot version
23:25:28 <robin_sz> meep?
23:25:31 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, I think IM, yahoochat and stuff.
23:27:06 <asdfqwega> Make something really dumb - just sample audio input, detect pauses when they're expecting an answer, and have it say "Huh?"  "Could you repeat that?"
23:27:31 <asdfqwega> "Where's my thribble?"
23:29:58 <robin_sz> or .. just ignore them
23:30:04 <robin_sz> life is too fscking short
23:33:33 <asdfqwega> Man, where is that link?...
23:33:52 <asdfqwega> Speaking of making robots to do things a human can do...
23:34:09 <asdfqwega> I think it was called "robotoilet" or somesuch
23:35:48 <asdfqwega> No, that's not it...
23:40:05 <asdfqwega> Bah, can't find it