00:00:15 <websys> yup - that's where I'm putting Synergy eventually
00:00:25 <A-L-P-H-A> And that photoshoped chick interesting... kinda weird, but provacative.
00:00:30 <paul_c> robin_sz: The average BDusr wouldn't be likely to use a deb repo
00:00:44 <A-L-P-H-A> 5 gigs DAILY traffic... what the hell??
00:00:46 <A-L-P-H-A> that's awesome.
00:00:54 <A-L-P-H-A> websys, are they fast?
00:01:04 <websys> Fiber
00:01:09 <A-L-P-H-A> sweet.
00:01:16 <A-L-P-H-A> what's the server apps they got running?
00:01:39 <robin_sz> paul_c: conversley, theres certainly a few that would prefer a simple apt-get install a 630 meg download
00:01:40 <A-L-P-H-A> mysql, apache, php versions?
00:01:50 <websys> not sure but my customers told me about it
00:02:04 <paul_c> robin_sz: So we set up both.
00:02:14 <robin_sz> paul_c: great plan! 
00:02:18 <robin_sz> * robin_sz kisses paul_c
00:02:26 <paul_c> already have some of the debs on a server.
00:02:43 <paul_c> * paul_c runs to find the disinfectant
00:03:53 <robin_sz> paul_c: gezr mentioned some debian script that exports and builda a directory structure suitable for adding a ine to apt/sources
00:04:09 <robin_sz> paul_c: from what I remember, it makes all the index files and such
00:04:33 <paul_c> got the rule set already.
00:04:40 <robin_sz> kewl
00:04:42 <asdfqwega> There's the apt-utils package, or apt-move
00:05:04 <robin_sz> I used to dislike debain, but .. its completely swung me now
00:05:24 <A-L-P-H-A> websys, php5, and mysql 4.1 :) sweet.
00:05:29 <A-L-P-H-A> they're good for that price.
00:05:31 <A-L-P-H-A> very good.
00:05:46 <asdfqwega> robin_sz's a swinger, and he kisses guy <- Too Much Information
00:06:03 <robin_sz> you should join #london.pm
00:06:29 <websys> Depends where he's kissing him
00:06:44 <robin_sz> I still remember the tech meet when two girls demonstrated the new killer app for 3G phones ...
00:06:59 <robin_sz> it involved tongues ... ;)
00:07:11 <websys> ewwww
00:07:28 <paul_c> * paul_c has met more oddballs here....
00:07:55 <paul_c> Pam keeps making eyes at me....
00:07:56 <asdfqwega> paul_c:  It takes one to know one :D
00:08:18 <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, I don't know who's balls you're meeting... but I'll just stay over here now.
00:11:59 <A-L-P-H-A> easiest way to break blue locktight is?
00:12:04 <A-L-P-H-A> or maybe it's read.
00:12:05 <A-L-P-H-A> red
00:12:10 <robin_sz> heat
00:12:10 <paul_c> heat
00:12:15 <paul_c> hammer
00:12:16 <A-L-P-H-A> lots of it?
00:12:28 <robin_sz> as much as it will stand
00:12:31 <A-L-P-H-A> or just a propane torch?
00:12:34 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. k.
00:12:36 <paul_c> 300C
00:12:36 <robin_sz> oh yeah
00:12:41 <robin_sz> doesnt need to glow
00:12:49 <robin_sz> 250 degrees or so
00:12:53 <A-L-P-H-A> oh. good. I was hoping it didn't need to glow
00:12:56 <paul_c> don't breath the fumes
00:13:07 <A-L-P-H-A> so, an outdoor thing... great.
00:13:29 <paul_c> 60F outside
00:14:01 <asdfqwega> 0F here
00:14:09 <paul_c> toasty
00:14:49 <A-L-P-H-A> Need to bore a tap a whole for a 1-9/16" x 18tpi into a steel plate... or should I do in aluminium?
00:15:31 <acemi> acemi has quit
00:16:09 <A-L-P-H-A> I'll do steel... much cheaper.
00:16:21 <A-L-P-H-A> _much_
00:17:06 <paul_c> 18tpi is fairly fine at that size
00:17:23 <paul_c> ballnuts ?
00:17:39 <robin_sz> ooh, yes please!
00:18:14 <paul_c> * paul_c introduces robin_sz to Pam.
00:18:33 <robin_sz> actually, 18tpi in ally, hmm I think Id just make the hole undersize andget a wrench
00:19:49 <robin_sz> Pam?
00:19:49 <A-L-P-H-A> I have the tap. :)
00:20:07 <paul_c> robin_sz: You'll like Pam.
00:20:16 <robin_sz> paul_c: female?
00:20:16 <A-L-P-H-A> ballscrew nuts... standard size for that sized ballnut.  They do it to sell you the expensive flanges.
00:25:40 <robin_sz> mmm .. flanges.
00:27:06 <paul_c> robin_sz: She is now.
00:27:16 <asdfqwega> !?
00:27:19 <paul_c>  /She/He
00:27:50 <websys> it
00:28:27 <robin_sz> paul_c: hmmm. I'll pass, unless by chance shes turned out looking like pamela anderson
00:29:03 <paul_c> more like a number 13
00:29:10 <asdfqwega> paul_c:  I thought you prefered old trouts
00:29:41 <paul_c> * paul_c prefers young, educated ladies
00:30:03 <asdfqwega> Then don't come to Ohio - we have a shortage
00:30:08 <robin_sz> ah. ok, I'll pass.
00:43:22 <paul_c> gotta go - Having dinner with Clyde
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00:49:07 <A-L-P-H-A> I wish I had the stock here at home already.  Time to forage for metal on that shelf full of stock.
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02:46:48 <A-L-P-H-A> anyone ever used a boring head?  What's the proper usage of one?
02:47:13 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a 3/8" plate that I need to bore a 1.5" dia hole...
03:06:23 <asdfqwega> Proper usage for a boring head:  carefully.
03:07:23 <A-L-P-H-A> well? it's like what?
03:07:39 <A-L-P-H-A> drill out to whatever I can... boring, incrementing slowly?
03:07:41 <asdfqwega> Regular head on a vertical mill?
03:07:46 <A-L-P-H-A> run the boring head the slowest possible.
03:07:56 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, regular hear, vertical mill.
03:08:00 <A-L-P-H-A> hear=head
03:08:23 <asdfqwega> Ok.  Yes, make as big a starter hole as you can
03:08:26 <asdfqwega> Slow speed
03:08:51 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a dril that's 1"... so i'm gonna step drill it to that size... and then use the boring head... [which is the part I'm kinda stuck at]
03:08:53 <asdfqwega> And if you have a table Z, use it instead of the quill
03:08:55 <A-L-P-H-A> didn't come with instructions.
03:09:25 <A-L-P-H-A> no table Z... [knee].  I have a column [which doesn't index], and quill only.
03:11:06 <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_kingpdm25.htm except in an ugly green.
03:12:29 <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, k, so this is what I'm gonna do, step drill, change to the boring head... mill it out with the slowest RPM... incrementing the head as after each pass threw the stock.
03:13:21 <asdfqwega> Use the quill feed wheel
03:14:05 <asdfqwega> Basically, you want to feed it slowly, and using the hand lever has too much of a possibility of it grabbing
03:19:20 <asdfqwega> If the chatter gets too bad, one thing I've done was loosen the quill to "sticky but not stiff", and use the quill feed and hand feed in opposing
03:19:54 <asdfqwega> I push up lightly with the hand feed, and let the quill feed push it down
03:21:15 <asdfqwega> This takes up whatever backlash there might be in the quill feed
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03:30:21 <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, okay.
03:30:24 <A-L-P-H-A> thanks for the tips.
03:30:26 <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 22:33:00 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (22% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 693/1024MB (67.68%), C: 59.84gb of 75.42gb free, D: 21.03gb of 39.05gb free, E: 138.98gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2wks 10hrs 45mins 19secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 6hrs 56mins 16secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
03:30:46 <A-L-P-H-A> sorry, dropped the kb.
03:42:55 <gezr> oh my the blast booth is comming along
03:43:42 <gezr> got me a black and decker drill and jig saw, the cheap stuff, and its working nicely, not rechargable, got them cords I cAN cut on :)
03:44:43 <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : you get your hole bored?
03:45:11 <gezr> asdfqwega : how you doing tonight?
04:00:27 <picnet> picnet has quit
04:07:34 <asdfqwega> I'm not doing to bad - doing up my books for taxes
04:11:30 <gezr> cool
04:12:09 <gezr> I think im really tired
04:12:42 <gezr> Im not sure, I have 2 more boards to put onthe pyramid base, then some cuts and then some other stuff yet to do, then im going to work on assembly
04:18:54 <asdfqwega> Where you located, gezr?
04:19:36 <asdfqwega> Just curious - there's places you can get a blasting cabinet easier than building one
04:21:23 <asdfqwega> I'm trying to remember a name of a place that even sells kits for blasting cabinets
04:21:26 <gezr> im in central arkansas
04:21:35 <gezr> I can buy one any day
04:21:54 <gezr> this is somewhat an excuse to get some tools and have some fun :)
04:22:08 <asdfqwega> Oh, well,  have at it then
04:22:21 <gezr> less I spend on stuff I wont use everyday, more I can spend on stuff I will use more often
04:22:59 <asdfqwega> Ugh...time for a coffee run
04:24:09 <gezr> asdfqwega : did you see the photos I put up of the cabinet before the recent mods I havent finished yet?
04:24:24 <asdfqwega> No, I haven't
04:24:49 <gezr> www.masternode.net/gallery  cant remember which dir they are in
04:26:01 <asdfqwega> I'll take a gander when I get back
04:26:19 <asdfqwega> Careful with the power tools
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05:39:38 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yes. :)
05:39:39 <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
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11:05:51 <les> hey robin
11:06:01 <les> power is still on
11:26:01 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
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11:55:34 <anonimasu> hello
11:55:37 <anonimasu> :)
11:56:10 <anonimasu> emc2 compiles&runs
12:13:11 <picnet> picnet has quit
12:40:15 <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
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13:57:20 <A-L-P-H-A> hey hey
13:57:24 <A-L-P-H-A> morning folks. :)
14:00:24 <robin_sz> mornign
14:00:36 <A-L-P-H-A> looking at proximity switches for home switches.
14:00:42 <robin_sz> today, I am having fun with snmp
14:00:48 <A-L-P-H-A> proxi switches are EXPENSIVE. :(
14:00:52 <A-L-P-H-A> $75/pop.
14:00:52 <robin_sz> yep
14:01:01 <A-L-P-H-A> wonder if I can get a half dozen for samples. :) hehe
14:01:04 <robin_sz> and useless in your application too :)
14:01:44 <robin_sz> you are using steppers, right?
14:01:46 <A-L-P-H-A> Yeah.
14:02:08 <robin_sz> so .. your homing accuracy depends on switch accuracy, unliek a servo
14:02:08 <A-L-P-H-A> someone mentioned it... so I was curious.
14:02:29 <A-L-P-H-A> so the proximity sensor can be used as a switch.
14:02:35 <robin_sz> proximity switches are not very repeatable 
14:02:49 <A-L-P-H-A> supposedly this guy can get it within +/- 1 step.
14:03:13 <robin_sz> sounds, unlikely
14:03:29 <robin_sz> let me put it anothe way
14:03:36 <A-L-P-H-A> okie
14:03:39 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm listening
14:03:39 <robin_sz> microswitches are $3
14:03:55 <A-L-P-H-A> I have like a dozen of them.
14:04:10 <robin_sz> wellm that  was it really :)
14:04:21 <A-L-P-H-A> oh. just the price diff. understood.
14:04:39 <robin_sz> my experience with proximity switches is they are very variable in when they go off
14:05:28 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... how about hall sensors?
14:05:49 <picnet> picnet has quit
14:05:52 <A-L-P-H-A> aren't they really accurate?  but the problem is that my machine is made of iron.
14:05:56 <robin_sz> I would hae thought the same thing applied
14:06:13 <robin_sz> halls were a bit temperature dependent I thought
14:06:36 <A-L-P-H-A> My mill is inside the basement.
14:06:41 <A-L-P-H-A> same with my lathe
14:06:50 <robin_sz> even my 250K laser uses microswitches ...
14:07:04 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. okie. :)
14:07:14 <A-L-P-H-A> what's the repeatablity of the microswitches?
14:07:24 <robin_sz> good. very good.
14:07:29 <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.
14:07:39 <robin_sz> depepns a bit on how you mount them
14:07:52 <robin_sz> I use them with a roller and a ramp
14:08:03 <robin_sz> so if it overshoots, death doesnt occur
14:08:03 <A-L-P-H-A> how should it be mounted? got a picture by chance?
14:08:28 <robin_sz> hmmm.
14:08:45 <robin_sz> don think i have 
14:08:58 <robin_sz> heres how it is on most pro gear.
14:09:13 <robin_sz> some sort of slotted track
14:09:29 <A-L-P-H-A> damn my internet is so slow
14:09:36 <robin_sz> with a plastic or ally wedge ... sorts_____/------
14:09:58 <robin_sz> like a 45degree section an a 5mm step
14:10:22 <robin_sz> the microswitch has a roller
14:10:43 <robin_sz> you can move the wedge in the track to adjust the zero
14:11:04 <robin_sz> ooh, one thing that might work if you dont want you switches
14:11:12 <robin_sz> slotted IR sensors
14:11:20 <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking those... from a mouse.
14:11:30 <robin_sz> yeah, or an old printer
14:11:48 <robin_sz> seen those used, but dust may be an issue
14:12:15 <robin_sz> * robin_sz luuurrvs mrtg
14:12:23 <A-L-P-H-A> mrtg?
14:13:30 <robin_sz> traffic grapher, sucks data out over smnp and graphs it
14:13:56 <robin_sz> http://adsl.redpoint.org.uk:82/mrtg/
14:15:00 <robin_sz> the 3com switch in my network, plus a bit of ssytem data from another host
14:15:29 <robin_sz> you can click the graphs for more detail
14:16:31 <A-L-P-H-A> oh
14:16:57 <robin_sz> well, i find it kinda cute anyway
14:17:11 <A-L-P-H-A> it's useful... kinda. :)
14:17:39 <A-L-P-H-A> I can't get omron.ca to work properly.
14:17:41 <A-L-P-H-A> stupid site.
14:27:06 <A-L-P-H-A> ahh. enclose an photomicrosensor in a box, with a piston and spring as a trigger mechanism.  Making it liquid + dust proof.
14:36:05 <A-L-P-H-A> it goes ... kilo, deca, <base>, centi, mili, micro, pico, nano right?
14:53:59 <robin_sz> umm
14:54:09 <robin_sz> micro, nano, pico
14:54:28 <robin_sz> uF, nF, pF
15:01:12 <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
15:02:41 <A-L-P-H-A> found a device that is oh... 5um accuracy... but I realized... if I just modify some code, I could get that accuracy as well... so that I start the table movement, I trigger a switch, slow down, stop when trigger the optical sensor.
15:12:12 <anonimasu> hey
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15:13:13 <anonimasu> I got my machine to work 
15:13:26 <anonimasu> although it dosent seem like you can redefine pins in the config yet
15:13:34 <acemi> how can i increase the number of step pulse/second limit in EMC?
15:13:46 <anonimasu> so I guess I'll have to re-wire everything
15:18:22 <acemi> my step motor moves slowly (100 rev/m). i have a driver card with 5000 microstep. i want to increase rev/m. when i increase maximum_velacity higher than 6 (mm/sec) i get an error message: Error - axis 0 follow error
15:18:43 <acemi> what can i do?
15:20:50 <cradek> what is P for that axis?
15:21:13 <acemi> P = 1000.000
15:22:34 <cradek> that should be fine I think
15:22:48 <cradek> what is [EMCMOT] PERIOD?
15:22:58 <cradek> are you are using freqmod?
15:23:17 <acemi> PERIOD =                0.000020
15:23:24 <acemi> yes freqmod
15:23:56 <cradek> with that PERIOD you probably can't get over about 10000 pulses per second
15:24:12 <cradek> maybe less
15:24:36 <acemi> when i increase that, my computer locks
15:24:46 <cradek> what are your INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
15:24:52 <acemi> sorry, decrease..
15:25:04 <acemi> 1250.0   0  (both)
15:26:07 <cradek> when you set max_vel over 6 how many steps per second are you requesting?
15:26:59 <acemi> ~ 7000 microstep
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15:27:23 <cradek> I think you're limited by PERIOD here
15:27:34 <cradek> what are SETUP_TIME and HOLD_TIME
15:27:57 <acemi> SETUP_TIME = 			1
15:27:57 <acemi> HOLD_TIME =			2
15:27:57 <cradek> you need more than (SETUP_TIME + HOLD_TIME) PERIODS per pulse
15:28:17 <cradek> is it a very slow machine?
15:28:26 <acemi> no, celeron 1800
15:28:52 <acemi> but i run emc from livecd
15:29:19 <cradek> can you reduce the number of microsteps per step in your driver?
15:29:55 <acemi> yes but if i use 5000 microstep will be better
15:31:23 <cradek> here's what you're up against
15:31:26 <acemi> in [EMCIO] section, PLAT will be realtime?
15:31:40 <cradek> no it should be nonrealtime
15:31:59 <cradek> PERIOD of .000020 means your realtime motion controller task runs 50000 times a second
15:32:09 <anonimasu> :)
15:32:17 <cradek> to change the state of the output you need 3 PERIODS because of SETUP_TIME and HOLD_TIME
15:32:27 <cradek> you change state twice per pulse
15:32:42 <cradek> that gives you an absolute maximum pulse rate of 8333 pulses per second
15:32:54 <cradek> by requesting 7000 you are too close to that.
15:33:01 <acemi> hmmm
15:33:10 <cradek> $ units 1/.000020/3/2
15:33:10 <cradek>         Definition: 8333.3333
15:33:57 <cradek> you have to decrease PERIOD (you can't) or reduce the number of pulses you need per second (change your microstepping mode)
15:34:11 <acemi> i see
15:34:13 <anonimasu> hm, if that's the speed you can get with stepper driver's .. I guess I need one of the vital cards :)
15:34:48 <acemi> cradek, thank you
15:34:59 <cradek> you're welcome
15:35:20 <anonimasu> cradek: can you have a faster rate if you have a faster computer?
15:35:26 <cradek> yes
15:35:46 <cradek> but not much.  the computer is pretty fast here.
15:36:01 <cradek> what you need to do is change how far your axis moves per pulse
15:36:03 <anonimasu> hm, I have a 500 atm.. for my mill...
15:36:19 <anonimasu> but well, if everything works out I might gea 3ghz.. for it..
15:36:58 <anonimasu> cradek: that takes away precision :/
15:37:21 <anonimasu> or well, not with geckos..
15:37:24 <anonimasu> *remembers*
15:37:32 <cradek> my system moves at 25ipm and has resolution of 1/8000 inch
15:37:56 <cradek> I would happily have 100ipm and 1/2000 inch
15:38:44 <cradek> now you could try changing HOLD_TIME to 1
15:38:51 <cradek> see if your drivers still work right
15:38:56 <cradek> it will get you a little more speed.
15:40:34 <anonimasu> km
15:40:37 <anonimasu> ojk..
15:41:11 <anonimasu> but well, I dont know how my mill performs with emc.. yet
15:41:15 <anonimasu> maybe tomorrow..
15:42:08 <anonimasu> I am curious to see how the segmentqueue does..
15:42:14 <anonimasu> when millint complex shapes..
15:42:14 <anonimasu> :)
15:42:18 <anonimasu> milling..
15:42:44 <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, remember. photos
15:43:08 <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: :p
15:43:27 <A-L-P-H-A> wha? :) I wanna see end results. :)
15:43:28 <anonimasu> yeah
15:43:49 <anonimasu> I'll get photos once I get it to work as supposed..
15:44:13 <anonimasu> the only thingk thats keeping me is that you cant redefine step/dir pins in the cfg..
15:44:51 <anonimasu> * anonimasu craves for a cnc lathe atm
15:45:19 <anonimasu> but I dont have time to build one :)
15:46:08 <A-L-P-H-A> :)
15:46:08 <anonimasu> I wonder if the machine shop nearby would get me my parts.. if I sent em .igs of them,,
15:46:20 <A-L-P-H-A> I'd like to have my bracket made today... I've got the metal, the hole bored.
15:46:26 <anonimasu> :)
15:46:42 <anonimasu> I am stuck on my machine until I get my boring head..
15:46:52 <A-L-P-H-A> just need to make the bolt slots, and tap the big hole.
15:46:53 <anonimasu> to make better bearing mounts :)
15:46:58 <anonimasu> nice :)
15:47:00 <A-L-P-H-A> I bought a boring head cheap on ebay.
15:47:10 <anonimasu> I found a cheap boaring head at a company here...
15:47:11 <A-L-P-H-A> it's a shitty boring head, but does the job.
15:47:16 <anonimasu> about 250$
15:47:32 <A-L-P-H-A> uh, my boring head was maybe at most 1/5 of that.
15:47:34 <A-L-P-H-A> USD.
15:47:39 <anonimasu> :)
15:47:41 <A-L-P-H-A> 50 USD with boring bars.
15:47:45 <anonimasu> heh
15:47:46 <anonimasu> that's cheap
15:47:49 <A-L-P-H-A> it's a cheap Made in China one...
15:47:51 <A-L-P-H-A> does the job.
15:48:25 <anonimasu> yeah :)
15:48:32 <A-L-P-H-A> there's a ton of backlash in the head, but I'm only going in one direction, and I realize that I can push the head in... and index it from only one direction.
15:48:47 <A-L-P-H-A> backlash in the incrementor.
15:49:06 <anonimasu> oh
15:49:14 <A-L-P-H-A> Pita Wilson is hot.
15:49:21 <anonimasu> who's that?
15:49:38 <A-L-P-H-A> Nikita on Nikita :)
15:49:42 <anonimasu> ah
15:50:00 <anonimasu> she looks good.. but she's a tad bit old :p
15:50:02 <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0933959/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9cGl0YSB3aWxzbnxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=2;ft=21;fm=1
15:50:09 <A-L-P-H-A> she's older than me by 9 years.
15:50:29 <anonimasu> I hate my current bearing mounts..
15:50:58 <anonimasu> 14 years older then me ;)
15:51:31 <anonimasu> they wrok and have good precision..
15:51:45 <anonimasu> but I'd want em machined out of solid blocks of alu..
15:52:17 <anonimasu> encapsulated.. and with nice lube points..
15:52:25 <anonimasu> for automatic lubing..
15:52:49 <robin_sz> mmmm ... automatic lubing
15:53:15 <robin_sz> is Pita Wilson equipped with that?
15:53:58 <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont know.. if that was the case and if she did chew metal all day long I'd be scared.. :P
15:55:06 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, hmm... I would think so... she has a that's 3 yrs old.
15:55:21 <A-L-P-H-A> a kid that's 3yrs old
15:56:22 <robin_sz> ;)
15:57:08 <anonimasu> I turned some of the most horrid stuff at friday at work..
15:57:21 <anonimasu> at the large lathe..
15:57:43 <anonimasu> it was some steel couplings for a tractor..
15:58:09 <anonimasu> spark rain ;)
15:58:17 <A-L-P-H-A> nasty.
15:58:37 <robin_sz> large lathe?
15:58:40 <anonimasu> yeah..
15:58:43 <anonimasu> profila somthing
15:58:47 <robin_sz> over 1m swing?
15:58:53 <anonimasu> yeas..
15:58:54 <A-L-P-H-A> someone was telling me about a vertical lathe... that was war era vintage... and took out 1/2" chunks to rough it out... making horrible horrible noises, but just worked.
15:59:14 <anonimasu> robin_sz: I've taken 1cm cuts at it ;)
15:59:20 <robin_sz> kewl :)
15:59:26 <anonimasu> it's violent..
15:59:47 <A-L-P-H-A> how BLACK were the chips?
15:59:58 <robin_sz> I assume you mean 1cm wide cuts
16:00:06 <robin_sz> not 1cm deep
16:00:41 <anonimasu> 1cm deep..
16:00:45 <robin_sz> ie turned 2cm dia off a bar in one go
16:00:51 <robin_sz> not 1cm chips
16:00:56 <anonimasu> err 1cm.. that is..
16:01:02 <anonimasu> err 0.5cm that is per side..
16:01:05 <robin_sz> right
16:01:36 <anonimasu> large ass russian lathe :)
16:01:37 <A-L-P-H-A> what kind of cutter would you be using? tungstun carbide?
16:01:43 <robin_sz> i'll take 2 to 3mm per side on the small colchester, but not with a fast feed
16:02:04 <anonimasu> seco carbide inserts..
16:02:55 <anonimasu> :)
16:04:20 <anonimasu> the inserts wont take much more abuse..
16:04:21 <anonimasu> :)
16:04:24 <anonimasu> then that..
16:04:44 <robin_sz> heh
16:04:54 <anonimasu> not much atleast..
16:05:04 <robin_sz> I use seco or sandvik inserts
16:05:09 <robin_sz> all seem good.
16:05:12 <anonimasu> yeah
16:05:13 <anonimasu> :)
16:05:16 <robin_sz> get em cheap on ebay
16:05:32 <anonimasu> seco are good
16:05:35 <robin_sz> I dont use coolant much these days either
16:05:37 <anonimasu> have you seen their catalog?
16:05:41 <robin_sz> nope
16:05:46 <anonimasu> it's 2dm thick..
16:05:55 <robin_sz> coo
16:05:55 <anonimasu> or more then 2dm..
16:05:59 <anonimasu> with all extra papers..
16:06:02 <anonimasu> we got it at work..
16:06:14 <anonimasu> they sell lots of special inserts..
16:06:44 <anonimasu> and lots of types for different stuff..
16:07:54 <anonimasu> well the part I turnd was nasty..
16:08:09 <anonimasu> couldnt take more then 0.05 each pass..
16:08:22 <anonimasu> could only clamp it at the edge..
16:08:23 <anonimasu> :)
16:09:15 <robin_sz> anyone know anything about 802.1p vlan tagging?
16:09:38 <anonimasu> I dont know what material it was really..
16:09:41 <anonimasu> just some steel..
16:09:42 <anonimasu> :)
16:09:52 <anonimasu> it was nastier then turning ballscrews..
16:11:47 <anonimasu> :)
16:11:48 <A-L-P-H-A> ballscrews are just hardened...
16:11:48 <anonimasu> brb
16:11:50 <anonimasu> yeah
16:11:54 <A-L-P-H-A> it was a bitch to do mine
16:12:05 <anonimasu> I turned mine at my small home lathe..
16:12:12 <A-L-P-H-A> I ended up grinding it with a die grinder to get past the hardening.
16:12:25 <anonimasu> I broke the insert but managed to get the hardening away..
16:12:25 <A-L-P-H-A> it's work hardened, not treated I think.
16:12:38 <A-L-P-H-A> I broke so many inserts... not even my tool.
16:12:39 <anonimasu> I think it's surface hardened..
16:12:41 <A-L-P-H-A> tools
16:12:49 <A-L-P-H-A> I brought over my tools, and they did it no problem.
16:12:58 <A-L-P-H-A> he had _really_ cheap disposable tools.
16:13:04 <anonimasu> hehe
16:13:15 <A-L-P-H-A> they were horrible.
16:13:22 <anonimasu> the reason the insert broke was because the toolpost flexed..
16:13:22 <anonimasu> :)
16:13:28 <A-L-P-H-A> I would not want to machine ball screws again though.
16:13:34 <robin_sz> I used the oxy-acet to heat em cherry red and then anneal
16:13:35 <anonimasu> and started chattering when it went over the ridges..
16:13:58 <robin_sz> really, you need a little grinder to do that
16:14:00 <anonimasu> I'd turn em at work in one single pass.. to get the hardening away if I were to do it again..
16:14:14 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, no oxy-acet torch.
16:14:36 <robin_sz> $friend has a little myford grinder, would have made a lovely job of them I think
16:14:50 <anonimasu> yeah
16:14:51 <anonimasu> :)
16:15:00 <anonimasu> I'll buy my next ballscrews pre-turned
16:15:01 <robin_sz> he does some beautiful engineering work ... this is my gunsmith friend
16:15:04 <A-L-P-H-A> highspeed grinder to get through the hardening?
16:15:15 <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
16:15:20 <A-L-P-H-A> cool. :)
16:15:21 <anonimasu> a toolpost grinder would work wonders
16:15:25 <robin_sz> nah
16:15:30 <robin_sz> not on a lathe you value
16:15:34 <A-L-P-H-A> must make a huge mess.
16:15:40 <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
16:15:44 <A-L-P-H-A> I value my lathe...
16:15:53 <robin_sz> even with guideway covers, it gets into the sump
16:15:56 <A-L-P-H-A> I don't value his...
16:16:04 <rayh> rayh has joined #emc
16:16:15 <robin_sz> anyone know anyting baout 802.1p vlan tagging?
16:16:45 <anonimasu> heh :D
16:17:00 <anonimasu> brb
16:50:27 <les> les has joined #emc
16:54:39 <danfalck> morning guys
16:55:56 <les> hi dan
16:56:18 <danfalck> how's the router running?
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17:29:35 <robin_z> hmmm ... seems my stp failover test proved it didnt work :)
17:31:32 <robin_z> anyone know how to convince a mandrake box NOT to use the gui as the default login?
17:36:44 <cradek> if it has an /etc/inittab, you probably change the default runlevel
17:48:30 <robin_z> hmmm
17:48:42 <robin_z> looking at it .. this is an old 2.2.18 BDI install
17:48:50 <robin_z> with rtlinux
17:49:10 <robin_z> cradek: what do you recomend as a basis for trying the segmot stuff?
17:49:18 <cradek> what do you mean?
17:49:31 <robin_z> debian fresh install? a BDI of dsome flavour
17:49:33 <robin_z> ??
17:49:41 <cradek> no no no, just update from cvs
17:49:48 <robin_z> really?
17:49:50 <robin_z> ok.
17:50:14 <cradek> I also use rtlinux
17:50:28 <cradek> you don't have to screw up a working system
17:52:05 <robin_z> well, I doubt I can even remember the arcane incantations to compl=ile it ...
17:52:17 <cradek> it's easy now
17:52:24 <cradek> ./configure
17:52:26 <robin_z> make plat=rtlinux_3_0 etc
17:52:29 <robin_z> oh, ok
17:52:30 <cradek> then run make four times
17:52:40 <cradek> PLAT=realtime, PLAT=nonrealtime
17:52:48 <cradek> in both the rcslib and the emc/src directories
17:53:12 <cradek> leave your old emc alone
17:53:17 <cradek> check out the cvs in a new spot
17:53:23 <cradek> copy over your ini file
17:53:27 <cradek> run it
17:54:22 <robin_z> yeah, ages since I played with this ...
17:54:27 <robin_z> liek .. 18 months!
17:56:34 <robin_z> ah well, another dream shattered ::
17:58:08 <robin_z> no .configure file in the cvs head of emc or rcslib
18:00:26 <robin_z> cradek: are the .configure files distributed seperatley or somehting?
18:02:06 <cradek> robin_z: not sure...
18:02:34 <cradek> robin_z: just do it the old way then
18:03:06 <cradek> probably make PLAT=rtlinux_3_0 and make PLAT=linux_2_2_18
18:03:39 <robin_z> sigh
18:03:52 <robin_z> hang on ... I'll just follow the README
18:03:54 <cradek> I've never used the new configure in emc1
18:04:08 <robin_z> well, its not there, so it would be hard to ..
18:05:08 <cradek> try those two makes in rcslib
18:05:38 <robin_z> yeah, ok, 
18:05:51 <robin_z> the README was devoid of further clue anyway
18:06:04 <picnet> picnet has quit
18:06:26 <robin_z> /bin/sh: etags: command not found 
18:06:36 <cradek> ignore
18:07:04 <robin_z> yeah, justy suprised it even in there as standard
18:10:15 <robin_z> coo, rcslib built without exploding ..
18:12:04 <cradek> so try the same in emc/src now
18:12:19 <robin_z> hmmm ... emc is building too .. .but lots of complaints about missing slocate 
18:13:02 <robin_z> but, so far .. so good
18:16:11 <robin_z> seems the locate db is a bit old ... last time the box was switched on was in Jan 2003 :)
18:16:15 <rayh> rayh has joined #emc
18:16:36 <robin_z> oops, failes
18:17:01 <robin_z> vital.c:49: pci/pci.h: No such file or directory
18:17:01 <robin_z> make[1]: *** [/root/emc/plat/linux_2_2_18/lib/vital.o] Error 1
18:17:01 <robin_z> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `objs', needed by `libs'.
18:17:53 <rayh> robin_z: What install you working with?
18:18:01 <cradek> install pciutils-devel pacakge
18:18:04 <robin_z> trying the current cvs head
18:18:10 <robin_z> cradek: impossible
18:18:43 <rayh> Where did you get the linux you are working with?
18:18:47 <robin_z> this is dedrat/mandrake based from loooong ago, up2date support died a long time bac
18:18:58 <robin_z> rayh: a BDI of some flavour
18:20:00 <rayh> Some of the BDI-2.xx series failed to install the pci utils package from the disk.
18:20:30 <rayh> If you've still got the disk you could look in cdrom/redhat/rpms dir and find it.
18:20:37 <robin_z> well, I'll just delete the vital stuff from the makefile
18:20:51 <robin_z> rayh: is this supposed to build with a ./configure && make?
18:21:00 <rayh> You'll also have to delete the vti stuff as well
18:21:10 <robin_z> or did it still not get that far?
18:22:02 <rayh> There is nothing in the configure that looks for and stops the make of pci stuff.
18:22:27 <robin_z> too tru,
18:22:33 <robin_z> theres no .configure even
18:22:40 <rayh> I believe that was the other half of the problem we identified.
18:22:53 <robin_z> this is current cvs head ...
18:22:53 <rayh> the configure stuff is in rcslib/etc
18:23:16 <rayh> I used it yesterday here with rc46 and it worked well.
18:23:37 <robin_z> you did ./configure ?
18:23:52 <rayh> in rcslib/etc yes.
18:24:52 <robin_z> thats an "interesting" place to keep it
18:25:07 <rayh> My compile PC died the other day so I need to reinstall a 2.xx
18:25:18 <rayh> Yea.  fooled me for a while.
18:25:52 <robin_z> why is it not in rcslib/ ??
18:26:47 <robin_z> ok, I'll just put it down as 'another emc quirk'
18:28:59 <rayh> 'fraid you'll have to until someone explains why.
18:30:46 <robin_z> perhaps I'll commit a README for rcslib with that one fact in it.
18:32:27 <robin_z> ages since ive played with emc, quite fun again :
18:32:29 <robin_z> )
18:33:00 <robin_z> I think the huge expense of real controllers has driven me to investigate it again :)
18:34:22 <robin_z> remind me .. to run it now ive built it all ... 
18:34:47 <anonimasu> :)
18:35:20 <robin_z> ach .. 
18:35:21 <robin_z> The current real-time platform appears to be rtlinux_ but no directory exists for this platform.
18:35:28 <robin_z> sigh
18:36:43 <rayh> okay.  there is an .rtxxx file in the emc directory.  Remove that or edit it to read 3_0
18:39:18 <les> les has quit
18:39:42 <robin_z> I changed it to .rtlinux_3_0,  it was .rtlinux_verion.
18:39:51 <robin_z> still doesnt work
18:40:19 <rayh> Remove it entirely and run will ask for rtlinux version.  Answer 3_0 only.
18:40:48 <robin_z> oh, that was a text entry?
18:41:00 <rayh> yes
18:41:20 <robin_z> that needs to be  more obvious I think
18:41:32 <rayh> It is gone on all the newer versions.
18:41:37 <robin_z> nah
18:41:44 <robin_z> this IS the latest version
18:42:07 <rayh> I was thinking of linux or bdi versions.
18:42:21 <robin_z> this is current cvs head
18:42:46 <rayh> The file is needed by the rt that is working rather than the emc.
18:44:10 <rayh> I seem to remember that it points to the numerical extension to the rcslib or some such.
18:44:10 <robin_z> well, generic run works .. :)
18:44:30 <rayh> Great.  That's with ./configure?
18:44:34 <robin_z> nah
18:44:45 <robin_z> id already built the 'old way'
18:45:02 <rayh> oh.  okay.
18:46:14 <robin_z> slowly its all coming back to me
18:46:36 <robin_z> im vaguely remembering what was wrong when I last used it
18:47:02 <robin_z> I seem to rememebr there was a bug relating to units ...
18:47:29 <robin_z> I run fairly low steps per mm, like 50
18:47:44 <robin_z> and quite high speeds, like 20m/minute
18:48:40 <rayh> That should be gone in the current source.
18:48:51 <robin_z> good oh
18:49:21 <rayh> I think that last year's fest took care of it.
18:49:29 <robin_z> right
18:49:46 <robin_z> I make that about 17khz pulses ..
18:49:58 <robin_z> so it shouldnt be a problem
18:51:37 <robin_z> I may just hook some steppers up to it right now ... like I say, its been a LONG time
18:52:08 <rayh> How fast is the processor?
18:52:19 <robin_z> oh, very.
18:52:32 <robin_z> 450 mhz or more.
18:52:44 <robin_z> AMD K2450
18:53:06 <rayh> Should be able to get close to 17k anyway.
18:53:17 <robin_z> easy I would hope
18:53:37 <robin_z> I was getting twice that out of a certain other system
18:55:03 <robin_z> I guess I'll go with servos eventually anyway, 
18:55:20 <robin_z> I just wanted to checkout the steppersegmot stuff
18:55:27 <robin_z> see how smoooooth it is
18:59:43 <les> les has joined #emc
19:00:15 <les> power is kinda goin in and out here
19:00:32 <robin_z> build a generator 
19:00:40 <les> really
19:00:40 <robin_z> combined heat and power
19:00:48 <robin_z> TURBINE!
19:00:51 <robin_z> go on ...
19:00:56 <robin_z> you know you want to
19:01:00 <les> yeah
19:01:02 <les> haha
19:01:34 <les> what's that stuff the trbine is made of?
19:01:45 <les> platinum/tungsten?
19:01:58 <les> just cheap old metal
19:02:02 <robin_z> inconel
19:02:22 <les> hmm
19:02:39 <robin_z> you can buy 160hp turbines cheap enough
19:02:53 <les> helicopter?
19:03:02 <robin_z> that sorta thing
19:03:04 <robin_z> ebay
19:03:06 <robin_z> or .. 
19:03:15 <robin_z> ex-military power carts
19:03:20 <robin_z> its all done already
19:03:30 <les> oh yeah...APUs
19:03:34 <robin_z> 3 or 4k USD
19:03:59 <robin_z> surely you have contacts at a boneyard someplace?
19:04:08 <les> not here
19:04:14 <les> sure do in Chicago
19:04:53 <les> The big one is that airport where the sub orbital private rocket flight was done
19:04:57 <les> mohave
19:05:43 <les> Well I can't run the machine today due to flickering power
19:05:57 <les> so designing that client's cnc foam cutter
19:06:06 <robin_z> nice
19:06:12 <robin_z> on paper?
19:06:16 <les> 25 meters long
19:06:25 <robin_z> ooofff
19:06:31 <robin_z> uck
19:06:34 <robin_z> thats big
19:06:43 <les> Just doing the servo/transmissin on motioneering software
19:06:50 <les> you know the free stuff
19:06:52 <robin_z> * robin_z nods
19:07:18 <les> funny I am needing about 15:1 ratio on this one
19:07:31 <robin_z> seems ... low
19:07:31 <les> a lot different from a plasma though
19:07:36 <robin_z> is it heavy?
19:08:04 <les> light for it's size...moving mass about 700kg
19:08:20 <robin_z> I was offered a nice system with 300W ac servos
19:08:33 <les> going for 1 foot/sec but high frivtion
19:08:39 <robin_z> seems a bit big for my 50kg gantry though
19:08:48 <robin_z> 1 foot a second ...
19:08:58 <les> 100 in/sec^2 accel should be plenty
19:09:04 <robin_z> loads
19:09:09 <les> derate the motor 2:1
19:09:41 <les> need to find a sourcr of racks
19:09:47 <les> 75 feet of them
19:09:51 <robin_z> thats easy
19:10:08 <les> well browning etc but they are not hardened
19:10:12 <robin_z> I use "halifax rack and screw" .. 
19:10:21 <robin_z> but, they have a US division
19:10:34 <les> Oh my lathe was made in Halifax
19:10:43 <les> Boxfords
19:10:58 <robin_z> http://www.hrs-ccl.co.uk/america_about.htm
19:11:11 <les> ty
19:12:04 <les> what kind of price for that stuff?
19:12:33 <robin_z> cheap
19:12:47 <les> hardened?
19:12:52 <robin_z> like, 20mm wide, 5mm pitch ... 20 gbp/metre
19:12:55 <robin_z> http://www.hrs-ccl.co.uk/images/gear_rack4.jpg
19:13:03 <robin_z> see those two racks ;)
19:13:23 <robin_z> theyll do whatever you want .. 
19:13:36 <les> cool
19:13:40 <robin_z> hardened, painted, engraved with pictures of your grandma
19:14:01 <les> at that price I could even used a larger derated unhardened one
19:14:11 <les> as long as the pinion is hard
19:14:19 <robin_z> heres my philospohpy
19:14:27 <robin_z> 1) its going to wear
19:14:41 <robin_z> 2) make the pinion follow it
19:15:00 <robin_z> 3) if dust is a problem, mount it upside down
19:15:10 <les> ...like lapped in gear sets
19:15:46 <les> fortunately I don't need extreme accuracy or anti backlash
19:15:59 <les> it's upholstery foam
19:16:14 <les> cut by a round spiral bansaw blade
19:16:54 <les> I don't have to build the thing...just rough in a design
19:17:19 <les> This is that $100/hr billed engineering stuff
19:17:59 <robin_z> kewl
19:18:16 <les> I can rough it in and do a sanity check for the guy for $500 or so
19:18:26 <les> just a quicky worked in
19:18:48 <robin_z> this is a vertical bandsaw blade?
19:18:53 <les> yes
19:18:56 <robin_z> right
19:19:08 <les> cuts in all directions though
19:19:14 <robin_z> ultra-high speed I guess
19:19:34 <les> must be
19:19:50 <les> or the foam would sqish
19:20:09 <robin_z> im trying to imgaine how it fits around the Y axis
19:20:09 <les> the only foam cutters I have seen look like meat saws
19:20:45 <robin_z> the ones ive seen look like hot wires :)
19:20:47 <les> long 75 ft strips cut into shapes in 2d
19:21:04 <les> this is urethane...does not melt
19:21:13 <robin_z> 'k
19:21:20 <robin_z> emc powered?
19:21:37 <les> I am a bit reluctant about that
19:21:45 <robin_z> * robin_z nods
19:21:54 <gezr> morning guys
19:21:58 <robin_z> some industrial controller?
19:22:02 <les> This is a non-technical guy
19:22:08 <robin_z> yeah
19:22:11 <les> yeah
19:22:15 <robin_z> baldor maybe,
19:22:16 <les> mornin gezer
19:22:24 <robin_z> they have some nice HMIs
19:22:37 <gezr> I have the inverted pyramid on the base of my cabinet now :)
19:22:49 <les> some drop in black box
19:22:55 <les> built it?
19:23:02 <robin_z> nah, add on
19:23:16 <robin_z> les: you could do wors than look at the Burny stuff
19:23:29 <jmkasunich> jmkasunich has joined #emc
19:23:42 <robin_z> http://www.burny.com/
19:24:30 <les> nice
19:24:48 <robin_z> have a look at the 1250+
19:24:53 <les> k
19:25:08 <robin_z> not cheap, but user-proof :)
19:25:25 <robin_z> it even has "monkey node"
19:25:30 <robin_z> monkey mode
19:25:44 <robin_z> a prgram is sent over RS232 ...
19:25:48 <robin_z> the box beeps
19:26:07 <les> is it rs 274 code?
19:26:08 <robin_z> display "1250 x 2500 1.6mm" on the display
19:26:19 <robin_z> the monkey loads the sheet and presses start
19:26:35 <robin_z> the program ends, and deletes itself to stop the monkey running it twice
19:26:42 <robin_z> yeah rs274
19:26:43 <les> ahh
19:26:59 <les> sounds like the right kind of thing for this guy
19:27:07 <robin_z> but it can stor LOADS of programs
19:27:17 <robin_z> I thnk it has a couple of megs internal flash
19:27:28 <acemi> acemi has joined #emc
19:27:32 <robin_z> or was it 500 megs
19:27:34 <robin_z> I forget
19:27:59 <les> heh...keep it up and I shouls send you the retainer fee...
19:29:12 <robin_z> :)
19:29:24 <les> What will happen is that I will rough in the design...
19:29:34 <les> he will build it
19:29:41 <robin_z> whatever .. theyre pretty idiot proof, and you get the servo drives built in
19:29:47 <robin_z> this would be ideal then
19:29:59 <robin_z> they will ship woth motor, gearboxes, cables
19:30:01 <les> call me on the phone for mechanical how tos
19:30:07 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
19:30:07 <les> and that's it
19:30:15 <robin_z> its literally unpack it and plug it in
19:30:27 <les> sounds perfect
19:30:32 <robin_z> but not cheap
19:31:04 <les> If the guy can afford hiring engineers he can prob afford those
19:31:34 <robin_z> right
19:31:45 <les> anyway a simple solution that he can put together is best
19:32:13 <robin_z> and .. they are the most common controller in the oxy/plasma shape cutting industry
19:32:16 <les> If I had to go there and spend time it would cost as much as many controllers
19:32:32 <robin_z> so .. loads of engineers can setup and fix em
19:32:46 <les> cool
19:32:59 <robin_z> the invoice is in the post ;)
19:33:06 <les> hah
19:33:12 <robin_z> hows the ice storm?
19:33:17 <les> bad
19:33:27 <robin_z> freezing rain?
19:33:33 <les> trees are really starting to bend
19:33:37 <les> yes now
19:33:46 <les> was first sleet...no problem
19:34:02 <robin_z> power cables covered in ice?
19:34:12 <les> now freezing rain
19:34:21 <robin_z> will it snow?
19:34:32 <les> yes up to about 2 cm of ice on cables
19:34:38 <robin_z> coo
19:34:51 <les> as much as a foot of snow was predicted
19:34:58 <robin_z> sounds fun!
19:34:59 <les> but it is not happening
19:35:07 <les> it's ice
19:35:14 <jmkasunich> you seem to get an awful lot of ice storms Les, you should move north where it comes as nice fluffy snow!
19:35:22 <les> 10" snow = 1 " ice
19:35:47 <les> yeah John...never had a problem in Chicago
19:36:18 <jmkasunich> is Rayh here, or just lurking?
19:36:45 <les> prob has laptop by the grill cooking brats
19:38:55 <les> I always kept cooking outside up there in the depths of winter
19:39:10 <les> grill keeps you warm
19:39:22 <les> do that here too
19:39:34 <les> all cooked on cherry scraps
19:39:46 <les> since I have TONS of them
19:42:01 <les> Robin: I will call the Burny distributor tommorow I think
19:42:07 <les> quite close by
19:42:45 <robin_z> les: kewl, nice kit.
19:43:38 <les> So how much is the 1250?
19:44:31 <les> $1250...not likely
19:44:50 <les> ha
19:44:51 <jmkasunich> add a zero?
19:44:54 <robin_z> mmm ... with servos and gearboxes ... 
19:45:04 <robin_z> about that, yes, add a zero
19:45:12 <robin_z> might be better on your side of the pond though
19:45:17 <les> with all that might be okay
19:45:30 <les> better than me doing plant trips
19:45:35 <robin_z> quite
19:45:47 <les> which I cannot do anyway because I am booked
19:45:58 <robin_z> oh you could
19:46:04 <robin_z> IF the price was right
19:46:36 <les> ahem...I charge ITW $1000 a day but I have to pay expenses
19:47:02 <robin_z> well, for twice that plaus expenses then :)
19:47:06 <les> nah...I need to be here and be a turkey call spray painter for Mcdonald's wages
19:47:21 <robin_z> oh yeah :)
19:47:29 <robin_z> solved yer bottleneck?
19:47:37 <les> what am I doing...????
19:48:20 <robin_z> dont ask me ... 
19:48:25 <les> actually I am doing ok...grossed $2000 this week but paid only $150 in wages
19:48:37 <robin_z> thats OK
19:48:46 <robin_z> thats a,most reasonable
19:49:02 <les> had a fixture failure that shut down sanding for a while
19:49:30 <robin_z> timed your sander guy?
19:49:40 <les> timed?
19:49:45 <les> he's fast
19:49:51 <robin_z> 2mins?
19:50:11 <les> I have him set up with a station using a dc servo motor and power supply
19:50:25 <robin_z> and a nice dust extract?
19:50:32 <les> I think 5 min for two sandings
19:50:56 <les> yup I added some duct to those sytations this week
19:50:56 <robin_z> right .. 
19:51:13 <les> hard work sticking things to the ceiling
19:51:20 <robin_z> yep
19:51:25 <robin_z> need skyhooks :)
19:51:28 <les> had three sandings
19:51:33 <les> trying 2
19:51:39 <robin_z> three booths?
19:51:40 <les> before:
19:52:06 <les> sand, seal, body coat, sand, finish coat
19:52:29 <robin_z> ahh
19:52:38 <les> oops that is aftrer not before
19:52:45 <robin_z> so 5 minutes of sanding per item?
19:52:59 <les> before sand, seal, sand, body, sand, finish
19:53:07 <les> yes in total
19:53:16 <robin_z> so 12 units and hour max
19:53:18 <robin_z> per sander
19:53:23 <les> perhaps a little les now
19:53:39 <les> about
19:53:53 <robin_z> you need two sanders I reckon to match the output of the cnc
19:53:59 <les> I think he is getting much faster than that
19:54:05 <les> must time him again
19:54:46 <les> I can do about 150 units a day with the cnc
19:54:55 <les> at about 60% utilisation
19:55:12 <les> but not doing that much now
19:55:23 <les> doing about 100
19:55:30 <robin_z> yep
19:55:33 <robin_z> sounds about right
19:55:41 <les> that would max out at $3000/wk
19:55:48 <robin_z> the sander is the bottleneck
19:56:02 <les> and the finisher
19:56:09 <les> but not yet...
19:56:23 <robin_z> the finish process is quick though
19:56:25 <les> because I have yet to use him a full 40 hr week
19:56:31 <robin_z> oh, wow
19:56:43 <robin_z> something somewhere isnt adding up
19:58:19 <les_away> les_away has joined #emc
19:58:28 <les_away> power is going...
19:58:33 <robin_z> you know what I'd do ... run that CNC hard for a week, build up a BIG stock of parts, theres no reason not to just convert ALL that cherry to parts,  maybe no painting gets doen for a week, but your sander is fully occupied
19:58:45 <robin_z> then start painting
19:58:57 <les_away> makes sense
19:59:19 <robin_z> you can just concentrate on painting, because, even if no painted parts are ready for sand2, he has raw parts to sand
19:59:28 <les_away> I think part of it is that I am a crappy production manager...
19:59:38 <robin_z> and as the paitne dones come through, he has even more to sand
19:59:48 <les_away> True I started an ITW division but...
20:00:00 <les_away> then they sent me to corpratr
20:00:00 <robin_z> yep .. just run that CNC hard for a week .. 
20:00:05 <robin_z> ;)
20:00:12 <robin_z> for a lobotomy?
20:00:51 <les_away> "people skilled at inventing products that sell should continue doing that"
20:01:12 <les_away> Rather than forcing themselves into a business management role
20:01:26 <les_away> They might be right I don't know
20:01:38 <jmkasunich> forcing? or being forced?
20:02:07 <les_away> Actually I insisted at the time
20:02:25 <les_away> Got something called a "fellowship"
20:02:44 <les_away> where I was given a little office at corporate and left alone
20:02:51 <robin_z> did it involve a gold ring?
20:02:59 <les_away> haha
20:03:13 <les_away> no but a very nice plastic and walnut plaque
20:03:27 <jmkasunich> nice gig if you can get one
20:03:43 <les_away> But I still love manufacturing not inventing
20:04:10 <les_away> perhaps I am not as good at running a manufacturing operation but I do like it
20:04:33 <les_away> love to punch out those widgets
20:05:15 <les> les has quit
20:05:35 <les_away> Aw, I always got stuck in r&d or product development
20:05:47 <danfalck> les_away: how are you guys doing the sanding? on a spindle rotating?
20:05:52 <les_away> but I like assembly lines and making stuff
20:06:31 <les_away> dan: yes...the spindle has a special chuck I made out of 1140 steel
20:06:37 <rayh> Hi Dan.
20:06:42 <les_away> hooked to a spare servo motor
20:06:44 <danfalck> hi Ray
20:07:10 <jmkasunich> hi ray
20:07:17 <les_away> hey ray. Brats done?
20:07:18 <danfalck> les_away: could you use a compliant abrasive wheel instead of a piece of sandpaper?
20:07:24 <rayh> John I didn't see you.
20:07:39 <rayh> Yep.  Just had two for lunch.
20:07:56 <jmkasunich> been quiet... packing ebay stuff to ship
20:08:05 <les_away> dan: Yes...but I like to preserve the crisp detail I get from the emc carving
20:08:35 <les_away> I do wish I could do cnc sanding
20:08:40 <danfalck> les_away: could you put a pic of the piece up on the web somewhere?
20:08:44 <les_away> but easier said than done
20:08:53 <rayh> So the question is how do you deburr a carving without loosing detail
20:09:10 <les_away> dan: I have not but will
20:09:24 <les_away> have customer's web site though
20:09:27 <danfalck> les_away: I would like to look at it.
20:09:31 <les_away> hanfg on
20:09:31 <jmkasunich> sanding drum same size as the cutter?  (or are the cutters tiny?)
20:10:11 <les_away> john, I have 6 tool changes mostly with formed tools...custom $75 router bits
20:10:30 <jmkasunich> I see
20:10:43 <jmkasunich> (was visualizing straight end mills)
20:11:33 <les_away> too slow
20:11:37 <les_away> http://www.dynamiccalls.com/Catalog.htm
20:11:48 <les_away> scroll down 1/4 way
20:12:01 <les_away> and you will see an EMC made product
20:12:39 <les_away> the crystal over slate call is one
20:12:53 <danfalck> ok
20:13:50 <danfalck> les_away: semi circle w/ chamfered holes right?
20:14:18 <les_away> yes
20:14:33 <les_away> has some interior details you can't see
20:14:36 <danfalck> les_away: break the sanding down into steps
20:14:44 <les_away> yes?
20:15:03 <danfalck> les:automate what you can w/ a lathe and abrasive wheel
20:15:16 <danfalck> les_away: leave the detail to hand sanding
20:15:38 <les_away> Am considering such
20:16:07 <les_away> Turns out that things like automated sanding are the cutting edge
20:16:32 <jmkasunich> needs the human touch
20:16:34 <les_away> it's a touchy feely thing that machines have a hard time doing
20:16:43 <danfalck> les_away: for finishing, use things that let the coating flow, (solvents, retarders)
20:16:46 <jmkasunich> knowing when the paper is starting to clog or wear out, etc
20:16:48 <les_away> Mind you this is for a premium finish
20:17:20 <les_away> A spit coat of unsaturated polyester like eveything else is easy
20:17:38 <les_away> This is closer to an automotive quality finish
20:18:11 <les_away> That's how I took all the production away from another supplier
20:18:19 <les_away> It's all looks
20:18:31 <danfalck> yep, that sells
20:18:45 <les_away> It's a Gestalt thing right
20:18:48 <danfalck> put the sander on piece rate?
20:19:03 <anonimasu> hm..
20:19:24 <les_away> wELL NAW HE IS DOING GREAT AND GETTING FASTER AND FASTER
20:19:28 <les_away> OOPS
20:19:34 <les_away> hit cap lock
20:19:46 <anonimasu> hehe
20:19:53 <anonimasu> I didnt think automated sanding was that new..
20:20:08 <les_away> the wood actually shine before any finish is applied
20:20:27 <anonimasu> would it be impossible to build such a machine?
20:20:40 <les_away> anon...it isn't...but a "piano" grade finish is another matter
20:20:46 <anonimasu> very precise screws.. and some special tools..
20:20:59 <danfalck> could you use a vibratory finisher?
20:21:03 <les_away> anaon: it would be a nice challenge
20:21:11 <anonimasu> les_away: with special tool..
20:21:17 <anonimasu> I mean a vibrating tool..
20:21:21 <les_away> dan: thought aboutit
20:21:22 <anonimasu> not one that circulates..
20:22:04 <anonimasu> it could be done..
20:22:13 <les_away> What we go for is the circular micro scratches that give a unique sheen
20:22:33 <anonimasu> I thought about going 90o
20:22:39 <anonimasu> or well less..
20:22:39 <anonimasu> (
20:22:59 <les_away> just flattening agent for example gives that "wood flavored formica" look
20:22:59 <rayh> * rayh is starting the snowblower.
20:23:16 <anonimasu> I dont know what that is
20:23:30 <les_away> a sheen versus a raw gloss is a real subjctive thing
20:23:38 <anonimasu> yeah
20:23:42 <les_away> plastic laminate made to look like wood
20:23:47 <les_away> brb phone
20:23:59 <anonimasu> hm, you could use a algorithm.. to detect the surface finish..
20:24:49 <danfalck> I need to do some grinding....be back later....
20:25:15 <anonimasu> but well I might be speculating..
20:25:29 <anonimasu> :)
20:26:05 <anonimasu> It's not unusual for my mind to wander..
20:42:14 <les_away> Sorry that was the cnc foam cutter machine client
20:42:20 <les_away> on the phone
20:42:34 <les_away> I really have too many eggs in my basket
20:42:51 <les_away> but...anon
20:43:14 <les_away> High performance cnc sanding is the cutting edge of technology for sure
20:43:34 <les_away> want to work on something new...
20:43:38 <les_away> do that!
20:47:21 <les_away> les_away is now known as les
20:47:33 <les> ...until the next power bump
20:47:42 <rayh> I'm a low tech guy.  I'd use one of those grit impregnated flap wheels.
20:47:57 <les> yup
20:48:07 <les> great for lots of stuff
20:48:40 <les> but not 4" cherry hockey pucks that sell for $60 I guess
20:49:01 <les> The customer loves the crisp detail that emc gives
20:50:23 <les> flap wheels would soften that crisp detail in this particular shape
20:50:46 <picnet> picnet has quit
20:51:35 <les> like the checkering on gunstocks...can't really be sanded much
20:51:57 <les> or they will end up mush
20:52:21 <jmkasunich> how about CNC engraving - cut with sharp knives instead of rotating cutters, plenty of detail and no sanding needed
20:52:45 <les> good idea
20:53:21 <les> crisp sharp knife wood carving currently cannot be duplicated by a machine
20:53:34 <les> the best carving is never sanded
20:53:44 <les> considered a sin almost
20:53:57 <jmkasunich> isn't checkering engraved with a knife of sorts?
20:54:02 <les> so craftsment do it rether than machines
20:54:12 <les> jmk: yes
20:54:34 <les> kinda like curvelinear thread chasing on a surface
20:54:59 <les> make a machine that could do that on any shape and you will be rich.
20:55:04 <les> richer?
20:55:06 <les> haha
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20:56:37 <les> And on this big cnc machine I was just on the phone about...good case study. The guy really doesn't know what he wants or needs.
20:56:59 <les> So ok...I will give him outrageous performance.
20:57:09 <les> It's safe...
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20:57:25 <les> He will not be dissatified whatever he does
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20:57:58 <les> Will bump his machine up to 200 in/sec^2 accel
20:58:36 <les> .6 G
20:58:50 <les> just a bigger servo really
20:59:26 <les> but not huge
20:59:49 <les> 1500 in oz @ 1000 rpm...not too hard or pricey
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21:35:31 <les> yikes I am looking out the window at the forest haer
21:36:07 <les> and some 50 ft tall tulip poplar saplings are bent double from the ice
21:36:25 <les> won't have power much longer...
21:50:34 <gezr> les  : you have a fireplace right
21:51:22 <gezr> I hope you dont lose power, but Im betting your in a better condition then what I would be in.
21:58:08 <les> gezr: I have two airtight wood stoves
21:58:40 <les> and three ng stoves that can run without electricity
21:59:00 <les> so i'll be ok
21:59:41 <les> But my grandma here (and an employee) live in places with electric heat pumps only...
21:59:59 <les> so I may have some guests here
21:59:59 <picnet> picnet has quit
22:00:28 <les> right now I am in the music room
22:00:48 <les> might as well do some music as long as there is power...
22:14:01 <rayh> rayh has quit
22:56:07 <gezr> the blast box is comming along nicely, I have the side door mounted, the window section cut out, its looking nicely
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