00:00:45 <les> But I will admit emc and the motenc card is the right direction
00:01:15 <les> Still when I do this BP I will have to justify it by saying:
00:01:39 <les> " I'm not working right now...this is just hobby stuff..."
00:02:08 <les> Know what I mean?
00:42:32 <robin_s> hi les
00:42:41 <robin_s> hows the timing calculations?
00:43:07 <paul_c> time to go - Spotted ick for tea tonight.
00:43:36 <paul_c> * paul_c tries that again....
00:43:40 <paul_c> time to go - Spotted Dick for tea tonight.
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01:25:36 <gezr> hmm
02:07:22 <A-L-P-H-A> hi gezr.
02:19:12 <robin_s> hmmm spotted dick ...
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02:26:16 <jmkasunich> there are strange people here
02:31:22 <A-L-P-H-A> :) yup.
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03:06:54 <gezr> well, I got another board into my blast cabinet :)
03:07:18 <gezr> progress was heavely delayed today for some strange reason, I lacked a lot of motovation
03:07:26 <gezr> maybe it will be better tommrow
03:08:36 <gezr> only thing I think im not going to like is the fact its only a triangle bottom, instead of a pyramid shape
03:21:29 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, how's that good? better?
03:21:55 <gezr> hello
03:22:07 <gezr> I would say a pyramid shape would be better
03:22:14 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just about to machine some stuff... well.. I need to face it... the code is already written. :)
03:22:17 <gezr> the media would collect in one location
03:22:22 <A-L-P-H-A> so that it just collects on the bottom right?
03:22:34 <gezr> now its going to be at the bottom but spread across 3 feet
03:23:04 <A-L-P-H-A> you have a 3ft blast cabinet?!?!
03:23:08 <gezr> I think by making it myself Im saving at least a grand, the ones made of steel are 900 or so bucks for a slightly smaller unit
03:23:25 <gezr> its 2.5 high, 3 feet wide, 2.5 feet deep
03:23:35 <gezr> not including the section where the dust can collect
03:23:35 <A-L-P-H-A> I've seen 2ft by 2.5ft units for for $199CDN.
03:24:05 <A-L-P-H-A> comes with a filter, media collector, blaster, 3 ceramic nozzles.
03:24:05 <gezr> I paid like 70 bucks for a leaky  sheet metal/ with a plastic window one that I really really hate
03:24:15 <A-L-P-H-A> even $99 when on display sale.
03:24:26 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, probably that one. :)
03:24:28 <gezr> at a harbor freight where I got the one im replacing
03:24:35 <A-L-P-H-A> I wouldn't know... I never needed to bead blast anything.
03:24:37 <gezr> im using the gloves and gun :)
03:24:50 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yeah, same as HF stuff... that one
03:25:09 <A-L-P-H-A> I need ideas for lunch tomorrow.  Mongolian is out, as it's too expensive appearantly.
03:25:30 <gezr> this one is going to be pretty nice if I can get if finished, not easy with a hand saw, single direction drill that im using as a screw driver
03:26:05 <gezr> hmm, lunch tommrow the place I work for is providing us with a bar-b-que dinner
03:26:39 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, thinking Korean BBQ.
03:26:47 <gezr> treat yourself to a steak of some sort even if you have to cook it under your broiler
03:27:17 <gezr> im thinking I may do steak morrow evening, steak and taters
03:28:28 <gezr> how is your indexer thing comming, ive seen over the past few days you mentioning some things about accuracy or position of things over a distance?
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03:29:28 <gezr> oh my gosh, I forgot to call my friend today
03:30:49 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, your DCC work?  can you accept autocad 2005 files?
03:31:18 <gezr> you could email it to phil@conwaycorp.net
03:31:31 <A-L-P-H-A> autocad 2005 files work for you?
03:31:40 <gezr> im sure dcc would work but it would land at an unrecroverable destination
03:31:46 <gezr> yeah I think I can chew on them
03:31:49 <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
03:35:50 <A-L-P-H-A> should be there.
03:36:17 <A-L-P-H-A> everything is in mm units. it's an 1.5" cube, with subcubes. :)
03:36:45 <gezr> yeah it opened just fine :)
03:36:50 <A-L-P-H-A> cool
03:37:26 <gezr> so you cut that shape and then measured?
03:38:24 <gezr> that looks sweet when renendered :)
03:38:43 <A-L-P-H-A> it's not measured, it's calculated.  I did that first.
03:39:13 <A-L-P-H-A> it was a cube with 3 cylinders subtracted out of it, and then progressively scaled down by 0.68.
03:39:21 <A-L-P-H-A> the scalling was done with a macro I wrote...
03:39:39 <gezr> thats really neat
03:39:57 <A-L-P-H-A> was easier to do trial and error with scaling than with real metal... and the macro made things work in 1sec... version doing it by hand.
03:40:25 <gezr> you I guess have autocad2005?
03:40:43 <A-L-P-H-A> you would be guessing correctly.
03:41:17 <gezr> turbocad 10.5 opened it up with no problems :)
03:41:28 <A-L-P-H-A> oh good.
03:48:54 <gezr> too cool, im going to have to spend some time learning how to draft this year as well :)
03:53:50 <A-L-P-H-A> well, I can help with that aspect :)
03:54:04 <gezr> hehe, I colorized each individual copy a different color :)
03:54:06 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm gonna plug my laptop into the shop room, and VNC (www.realvnc.com) to my desktop to see and chat. :)
03:54:31 <gezr> im going to be going to bed in a moment
03:54:43 <gezr> this week has been full of lots of hard work, at work and home
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05:11:43 <A-L-P-H-A> doh! 2mm off on the part... copied down the number wrong. :(
05:19:55 <A-L-P-H-A> there goes $2-4 worth of aluminium. :/ heh... at least it wasn't an bunch of material wasted... checking if my code will be better now...
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07:13:36 <alex_joni> hello.. anybody around?
07:19:45 <alex_joni> * alex_joni could need some help
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07:33:11 <A-L-P-H-A> hi
07:33:16 <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know how much help I'll be though.
07:33:35 <alex_joni> I need you to check a ping
07:33:41 <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
07:33:43 <A-L-P-H-A> I can do that.
07:33:46 <alex_joni> on 66.227.8.108
07:33:52 <alex_joni> or robcon.ro
07:33:56 <alex_joni> if it resolves
07:33:58 <alex_joni> :
07:33:59 <alex_joni> :(
07:34:47 <A-L-P-H-A> nope neither
07:34:59 <alex_joni> bull
07:37:19 <A-L-P-H-A> could just be firewalled.
07:37:25 <A-L-P-H-A> so I can't ping them.
07:37:46 <A-L-P-H-A> sooo many burrs on my piece... it's gonna take hours to clean them out.
07:37:46 <A-L-P-H-A> :(
07:37:57 <alex_joni> http doesn't work either
07:38:00 <A-L-P-H-A> last pass though... machining 6 sides of a cube takes freak'n forever
07:38:03 <alex_joni> neither does DNS lookup
07:38:10 <alex_joni> that shouldn't be firewalled ;)
07:38:13 <A-L-P-H-A> then it probably doesn't exist.
07:39:19 <alex_joni> it's down
07:39:22 <alex_joni> or a route is down
08:39:32 <alex_joni> still around alpha?
08:54:03 <A-L-P-H-A> kinda
08:54:07 <A-L-P-H-A> cleaning/polishing a part
08:59:05 <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni...?
08:59:27 <A-L-P-H-A> I'll be back... I'm gonna wash my hands, and change my bandage...
08:59:31 <alex_joni> should work now... could you try again?
08:59:40 <alex_joni> robcon.ro or 66.227.8.108
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09:06:12 <A-L-P-H-A> yup
09:06:24 <anonimasu> 6 sides of a cube?
09:08:48 <alex_joni> anon: usually yes
09:08:59 <alex_joni> and 8 corners
09:09:00 <alex_joni> :D
09:09:26 <anonimasu> ah. yeah didnt think
09:09:26 <anonimasu> :)
09:09:42 <alex_joni> :P
09:09:47 <alex_joni> * alex_joni had a great idea...
09:09:50 <anonimasu> I need to machine a pneumatic vise.. soon..
09:09:51 <alex_joni> even ideea
09:09:57 <anonimasu> I got a nice showoff thingie for my desk :)
09:10:01 <anonimasu> in my head..
09:10:04 <alex_joni> I wanna build a cutting machine
09:10:12 <alex_joni> but the torch will be suspended by wired
09:10:15 <alex_joni> controlled by motors
09:10:38 <anonimasu> hmm ok
09:10:50 <anonimasu> http://www.dakeng.com/gallery.html
09:10:52 <alex_joni> kinda like the NIST robocrane
09:10:55 <anonimasu> I love that cube at top :)
09:11:23 <alex_joni> yup...
09:11:29 <alex_joni> I've seen chinese stuff
09:11:38 <alex_joni> but those were with sferes, not cubes
09:11:46 <alex_joni> and the ones inside could move...
09:11:49 <anonimasu> :)
09:12:11 <alex_joni> I've seen ones with 7 moving inside
09:12:20 <alex_joni> not big though (around 10 cm outer diameter)
09:12:51 <anonimasu> :)
09:14:07 <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, that's what I just made... except mine's 1.5" cube, with 5 cubes in total [4 inside 1 cube, making 5]
09:14:17 <anonimasu> :)
09:14:22 <anonimasu> I'll cad one later :)
09:14:44 <anonimasu> mine will be pretty large, becasue I only have 3x3cm alu stock
09:14:53 <anonimasu> but still it's nice for having on the desk
09:15:53 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got enough titanium to make one exactly as he has.
09:16:21 <anonimasu> I hate you! :D
09:16:43 <anonimasu> *jealous*
09:16:59 <A-L-P-H-A> nah, don't be a hater... you'll get to where I am... I started off with NOTHING... but drills, radial arm saw, and and hand tools.
09:17:15 <anonimasu> oh, I have a cnc mill...
09:17:18 <anonimasu> but I cant get titanium.
09:17:19 <A-L-P-H-A> I've actually got about 5ft worth of TI.
09:17:36 <anonimasu> there's hardly anyone that uses it in this part of the country..
09:17:37 <A-L-P-H-A> I have a CNC mill... except the backlash is foxered on the y axis.
09:17:55 <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, where are you again? Sweden?
09:17:57 <anonimasu> I dont know what's up with my ballscrews I have lots of bachslash now..
09:18:00 <anonimasu> yeah
09:18:30 <anonimasu> or well > 0.015
09:18:42 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got about that for my Y.
09:18:46 <anonimasu> but I dont know why.. I think my ballnuts have gotten worn..
09:18:47 <A-L-P-H-A> 0.002" for my X.
09:18:53 <anonimasu> 0.015mm
09:18:54 <anonimasu> ;)
09:19:05 <A-L-P-H-A> I hate you!  :D
09:19:07 <A-L-P-H-A> hehee
09:19:19 <anonimasu> expensive skf ballscrews..
09:19:27 <A-L-P-H-A> .0006" that's NOTHING.
09:19:45 <anonimasu> the other axis has about 0.023
09:19:50 <A-L-P-H-A> I will remove all of my backlash, after I fix the Yaxis a bit...  and spend another $40CDN.
09:20:10 <anonimasu> and the Z is spring loaded so it dosent have a problem with backslash
09:20:42 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm preloading the axes soon... with a die spring, or a disc spring [I don
09:20:45 <A-L-P-H-A> 't know which yet]
09:20:52 <anonimasu> :)
09:21:00 <A-L-P-H-A> <ball nut> <spring> <ball nut>
09:21:14 <anonimasu> I need alu to make my ballscrews mounted as they should be
09:21:20 <A-L-P-H-A> and that will get rid of all my backlash I think/hope.  Just need to calculate how much preload I need first.
09:21:25 <anonimasu> yeah
09:21:49 <A-L-P-H-A> I should really be changing this bandage more than once a day. :/
09:21:55 <anonimasu> :(
09:25:34 <A-L-P-H-A> actually I just measured a American dime... and compared it to the little cube. :)  it's less than 0.7"  So that means if I had 0.75" Ti stock I could make that easily.  but I only got 1", 1.5" ti stock.  hmm.
09:26:12 <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, can you open autocad 2005 files?
09:26:20 <anonimasu> hm, probably
09:26:21 <anonimasu> I am unsure..
09:26:45 <A-L-P-H-A> care to accept a dcc file?
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09:28:19 <anonimasu> yes
09:28:20 <anonimasu> :)
09:28:25 <anonimasu> I think solidworks will open it..
09:29:18 <A-L-P-H-A> _should_
09:31:20 <anonimasu> thanks :)
09:31:29 <A-L-P-H-A> drew that earlier today.
09:34:09 <anonimasu> I cant access the ftp at home now
09:34:13 <anonimasu> I'll check it later :)
09:34:54 <A-L-P-H-A> no hurry... it's just the cube cad drawing of the cube I made.
09:38:02 <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder if I know anyone with a media blaster... to just uniform the finish of this little guy.
09:38:23 <A-L-P-H-A> or maybe I'll just make a tumbler, and throw some sand and it into it.
09:41:12 <anonimasu> :)
09:41:24 <anonimasu> anodize it ;)
09:43:21 <A-L-P-H-A> anadizing Ti is much easier than anodizing aluminium.
09:43:36 <A-L-P-H-A> Ti is just a current in an eletrolytic solution.
09:43:45 <anonimasu> but wellneat
09:43:47 <anonimasu> neat
09:44:24 <A-L-P-H-A> Al, requires you to acid dip, dye, coat, lots of stepps... I researched it, and gave up on that idea... cause well... it's just tooo much work.
09:44:31 <anonimasu> yeah
09:44:38 <anonimasu> it's easier to send your parts in
09:44:46 <A-L-P-H-A> I have a place that does a real black hard finish for alumium... they do stuff under the table.
09:44:47 <anonimasu> it's about 5$ per part.. over here
09:44:53 <anonimasu> nice
09:44:54 <A-L-P-H-A> $50, for two shopping bag full or something.
09:44:58 <anonimasu> hard anodizing
09:44:59 <A-L-P-H-A> of parts.
09:45:09 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, hard anodizing... not decorative.
09:45:14 <anonimasu> I like that..
09:45:15 <A-L-P-H-A> though black anodizing looks sick to me.
09:45:23 <A-L-P-H-A> :) I love it.
09:45:30 <anonimasu> it's hard as hell :)
09:45:54 <anonimasu> * anonimasu is a freak for function
09:46:28 <A-L-P-H-A> I've got some pipes hard anodized... they're alumium 3/8" pipes... about a ft long each... The previous owner used to make camera parts/assessories for Panavision... but he was left with lots of stock still kicking around.
09:46:48 <A-L-P-H-A> so like 10% of it anodized... and I've got like no clue what to do with it.
09:47:09 <A-L-P-H-A> they're threaded too... internal thread... but it's just odd as I've got no practical use for them.
09:47:37 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... it's almost 5am... do I sleep, or do I just go make a coffee and then have lunch with the girl.
09:47:48 <A-L-P-H-A> i.e. stay up...
09:47:50 <A-L-P-H-A> or just cancel on her.
09:48:11 <anonimasu> hm, have a nice cup of coffe..
09:48:17 <anonimasu> slack for a bit and then go out with the girl ;)
09:48:51 <A-L-P-H-A> damn cute only took like 40 minutes to make. BUT took me over and hour extra to deburr and polish.
09:48:52 <anonimasu> heh, panavision.. crap cameras*grins*
09:49:09 <anonimasu> just kidding
09:49:42 <A-L-P-H-A> They don't make the cameras... they buy them, modify them, rent them out to film crews.
09:50:33 <A-L-P-H-A> same with lots of the other stuff... lights, dollys, grips, stabilizer systems, generators
09:50:49 <anonimasu> :)
09:50:53 <A-L-P-H-A> the generators are super super quiet... on a flat bed truck, to power the lights and cameras on remote locations.
09:51:20 <A-L-P-H-A> it's actually really damn quiet... It's like something you could have in the backyard, and you couldn't hear in the house.
09:51:29 <anonimasu> I am looking for a paper on the diff between 6060 and 6061
09:52:44 <A-L-P-H-A> https://bomdetail.services.ibm.com/matcodes/matcodes.nsf/pages/mat01.htm
09:53:39 <A-L-P-H-A> I can't find 6060
09:53:59 <A-L-P-H-A> nm 6060 is a european alloy.
09:54:03 <anonimasu> strange..
09:54:04 <A-L-P-H-A> 6061 is north american
09:54:07 <anonimasu> let me double check..
09:54:47 <anonimasu> AW-6060
09:54:51 <anonimasu> it is
09:55:05 <A-L-P-H-A> http://aaec.avidsoft.com.hk/bin/search.exe/PropertiesResults.htm
09:55:25 <A-L-P-H-A> that will tell you the composition of many alloys
09:55:30 <anonimasu> cant access it..
09:55:52 <anonimasu> hm, I am most interested in how it'll machine
09:56:14 <A-L-P-H-A> like butter?
09:56:27 <A-L-P-H-A> got a copy of machinaries handbook?
09:56:32 <anonimasu> yeah but not here..
09:56:49 <anonimasu> http://www.worcester-aluminium.com/html/char.htm
09:57:01 <anonimasu> 6060 Special purpose structural alloy. Good surface finish and corrosion resistance. Good formability in T4 temper. Good weldability. Responds well to surface finishing, especially anodising.
09:58:13 <anonimasu> :)
10:00:12 <alex_joni> man.. this is crazy ;)
10:00:24 <alex_joni> I just downloaded some ancient Java GUI from NIST
10:00:28 <alex_joni> and it still works ;)
10:00:36 <alex_joni> connected to a doze-emcserver
10:01:12 <anonimasu> hehe
10:01:12 <anonimasu> nice
10:01:15 <A-L-P-H-A> what's doze-emcserver?
10:01:25 <anonimasu> I need to go eat
10:01:26 <anonimasu> lunch..
10:01:29 <anonimasu> laters everyone
10:01:31 <A-L-P-H-A> I need to go sleep.
10:01:48 <alex_joni> that's a windows version of emcsvr
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10:51:31 <anonimasu> iab
10:52:21 <alex_joni> iag
10:52:23 <alex_joni> :D
10:52:27 <alex_joni> I am gone...
10:52:30 <alex_joni> bbl
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11:06:14 <anonimasu> bbl..
12:53:15 <alex_joni> ib
12:53:18 <alex_joni> iab
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13:17:51 <les> anyone home?
13:19:55 <alex_joni> hey les
13:20:52 <alex_joni> * alex_joni had a revelation last night ;)
13:21:09 <alex_joni> I wanna build an cutting-machine
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13:45:42 <les> hi...was taking a shower
13:45:56 <les> also getting ready for big ice storm
13:46:08 <les> expect no power for days
13:46:47 <alex_joni> ouchy
13:46:53 <alex_joni> no generator around?
13:51:17 <les> I am thinking of running out and getting one
13:52:12 <les> well out to the shop...employees coming in
13:52:25 <les> last work day for a while i'll bet
13:52:28 <alex_joni> cool
13:52:35 <les> later
13:52:41 <alex_joni> I wanna build a robocrane.. ;)
13:56:57 <alex_joni> anyways... going to the mountains this weekend
13:57:00 <alex_joni> later guys
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15:16:24 <paul_c> * paul_c spies rayh lurking...
15:16:37 <rayh> Mornin Paul
15:17:13 <paul_c> how's the snow up there ?
15:17:50 <rayh> Got some.  Cold today.  -10f
15:19:12 <rayh> If you want me to look over the docs before they go to press, send em.
15:20:37 <paul_c> I was just going to update the install section and advise a couple of small changes elsewhere
15:20:57 <rayh> You don't need me for that.
15:22:02 <paul_c> 'spose I should also do a paragraph on apt
15:22:29 <SteveStallings> a pointer to docs at Debian.org should suffice
15:23:52 <SteveStallings> question about versions - BDI 4.x, Debain Sarge (3.1), Kernel 2.6.10 - are these what you plan, or do I have versions mixed
15:24:58 <paul_c> Debian Sarge, (currently) 2.6.9 kernel, and rtai-3.10
15:25:54 <SteveStallings> is the "soft" realtime supported in 2.6.9 ?
15:27:59 <paul_c> 2.6.9 has low latency options, whether that is sufficient for soft realtime, I wouldn't like to say for sure.
15:29:26 <paul_c> from what I've seen of test results, 2.6 "soft" realtime latency is no better than a 2.4 kernel when under load.
15:31:30 <SteveStallings> is the low latency option what people keep calling "realtime" support in the kernel?
15:32:26 <paul_c> Some call it that.
15:32:57 <paul_c> but realtime means different things to different people.
15:42:46 <SteveStallings> for me realtime is "hard" realtime, but I still wanted to understand what it was that people keep claiming that the 2.6 kernel supplies natively
15:56:39 <les> wish I had a good laptop
15:56:58 <les> expect several days of power outage due to ice storm
15:57:09 <rayh> les:  I'll take one also.
15:57:35 <les> ice just wipes things out down south here
15:58:02 <les> we might get all snow here in the mountains
15:58:26 <les> So I would marely be snowed in but perhaps with power
15:58:35 <les> no salt
15:58:42 <les> no snowplows
15:59:00 <les> 7%+ grades common on the roads
16:00:16 <rayh> Driven on a few of those over the years.
16:00:23 <SteveStallings> quick, buy a Hummer
16:00:31 <les> heh
16:00:34 <rayh> With studded tires.
16:00:52 <rayh> Cause 4wd only helps with acceleration.
16:00:59 <SteveStallings> and the optional 115 VAC inverter outlet
16:01:12 <les> I was considering hitting the walmart and grabbing a generator
16:01:18 <les> prob sold out
16:01:37 <les> hmmm car batteries in the UPS?
16:01:50 <les> wonder how long that would last
16:02:25 <les> 100 ampere hours...12v
16:02:35 <SteveStallings> keep in mind that most UPS units will not start without power on the input to sync with
16:02:44 <les> 5 hrs per charge?
16:02:53 <les> hmm
16:03:30 <les> so after the first battery that would be it?
16:03:44 <les> oh well
16:03:48 <SteveStallings> unless you could have two and chain them on startup
16:04:24 <SteveStallings> the inverters made for RV's and boats do not have this issue
16:04:47 <les> was thinking hot swap...but that wouldn't work too well
16:05:12 <picnet> picnet has quit
16:05:17 <les> wonder what a 250w rv inverter costs
16:05:22 <les> checking now
16:07:17 <les> yikes too expensive
16:07:41 <SteveStallings> luxury market item
16:07:53 <les> I guess
16:08:26 <les> oh well
16:09:14 <les> yuck
16:09:18 <les> http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/forecasts/GAZ010.php
16:11:10 <SteveStallings> used to live in NC, remember southern ice storms well.....
16:11:26 <les> oh on another note I see the machinery rebuilder I was talking to here made a post to the list
16:11:41 <les> He took the plunge and bought a motenc card
16:12:08 <les> wants to use emc for commercial retrofit
16:12:51 <les> Since I am planning that too for an extra mill we might work together
16:13:19 <les> As far as I know the motenc has yet to be installed on a real machine
16:14:19 <les> I sure don't want to buy any more stg cards
16:15:19 <SteveStallings> shame they never did a PCI version
16:19:16 <les> yeah I don't know what happened
16:20:34 <les> Well...off to town to get supplies
16:20:36 <les> later
16:55:14 <rayh> rayh has quit
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17:15:45 <robin_sz> meeoup!
17:15:51 <robin_sz> * robin_sz waves ...
17:17:26 <robin_sz> anyone understand this tcp/ip networking stuff?
17:17:44 <cradek> I do
17:17:49 <robin_sz> good :)
17:18:12 <robin_sz> so ... I have a bit of a confusion
17:19:00 <robin_sz> I have a network, several boxes on the 192.168.1.x subnet
17:19:42 <robin_sz> and a laptop connected by wireless, and a card in one of the boxes on the 192.168.1.x subnet
17:20:08 <robin_sz> everything works just fine .. except ....
17:20:20 <robin_sz> the bridge box to the ouside world
17:20:41 <robin_sz> from the 192.168.1.x boxes I can see it fine
17:20:50 <robin_sz> as 192.168.1.30
17:21:06 <robin_sz> but its invisible from the 192.168.2.10 laptop ...
17:21:21 <cradek> where are the wireless cards?
17:22:36 <robin_sz> on the 192.168.1.1 box, and the laptop is on 192.168.2.10
17:23:22 <cradek> so what's the IP of the wireless interface on the box?
17:23:31 <robin_sz> if I ping the 192.168.1.30 box from 192.168.2.10 and run tcpdump .. 
17:23:47 <robin_sz> the if on the box is 192.168.2.1
17:24:01 <robin_sz> 18:12:48.022427 IP gandalf.redpoint.org.uk > 192.168.1.30: icmp 64: echo request seq 0
17:24:01 <robin_sz> 18:12:48.022652 arp who-has gandalf.redpoint.org.uk tell 192.168.1.30
17:24:12 <cradek> so what's invisible from the laptop?
17:24:38 <robin_sz> 192.168.1.30.
17:24:44 <robin_sz> the bridge box
17:25:07 <cradek> does the bridge box have a route 192.168.2.x -> 192.168.1.1?
17:25:21 <cradek> if not, the packets can't get back to the wireless subnet
17:25:34 <robin_sz> hmmm
17:26:05 <cradek> it says to itself "where is 192.168.2.10?" and answers "dunno, so I'll use my default route"
17:26:56 <robin_sz> isnt that what the arp who-has is supposed to figure out?
17:27:32 <robin_sz> the routing table on .30 is:
17:27:34 <robin_sz> Kernel IP routing table
17:27:34 <robin_sz> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
17:27:34 <robin_sz> 192.168.0.0     *               255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 br1
17:27:34 <robin_sz> default         192.168.1.138   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 br1
17:27:50 <cradek> what's 1.138?
17:28:32 <robin_sz> the router thing under the stairs, thats plugged into eth1, the network into eth0 and then its configured as an arp-transparent bridge
17:29:06 <robin_sz> ive assigned the .30 address to tht bridge
17:29:39 <robin_sz> hmm, I wonder if the box with the wireless card in it is seeing that arp who-has
17:32:03 <robin_sz> yeah, seems so, but its not replying
17:32:35 <robin_sz> should it? 
17:32:46 <robin_sz> * robin_sz doesnt really understand the arp stuff
17:33:08 <cradek> I don't either
17:33:51 <robin_sz> might be a firewally thing
17:34:36 <robin_sz> i know I added tules to do stuff to icmp packets, never really thought about arp stuff, basically because i dont know what it does :)
17:35:00 <cradek> but on .30 if you `route add -net 192.168.2.0/24 gw 192.168.1.1' I bet it will all work
17:35:44 <robin_sz> blimey
17:35:48 <robin_sz> it did too!
17:36:00 <cradek> told ya so
17:36:08 <cradek> now let's both go on not understanding arp
17:36:11 <robin_sz> * robin_sz hands cradek a beer
17:36:14 <robin_sz> :)
17:37:11 <robin_sz> the weird thing is ... say, 192.168.1.25, that doesnt have that route added, but thats works fine
17:37:39 <robin_sz> as do allthe other boxes on 192.168.1.x
17:38:20 <robin_sz> whatever, I'll add that to the briding script and stop worrying
17:38:24 <robin_sz> thanks!! :)
17:38:46 <cradek> you're welcome, but I don't understand why the others work either.
17:39:32 <robin_sz> shrug, they are all on the same net, with real ips assigned to real interfaces
17:39:47 <robin_sz> .30 is different in that the ip is assigned to a bridge
17:39:54 <robin_sz> but apart from that ?
17:40:47 <cradek> * cradek shrugs
17:41:23 <cradek> lunchtime for me
17:41:30 <cradek> I'll want that beer about 6pm
17:41:50 <robin_sz> I'll send it ups.
17:42:14 <cradek> great idea
17:43:21 <robin_sz> bridges are weird ... they dont show up in traceroutes ...
17:43:45 <robin_sz> yet you can fiddle with packets as they pass through ..
17:52:18 <robin_sz> right ... that sorted out, I now get to try and implement stp :)
17:52:38 <robin_sz> * robin_sz truly fears stp, for he understands that even less than arp!
18:05:40 <A-L-P-H-A> I have a bracket that is slipping... as it's only held down by one bolt?  Any ideas as to how I should mount the bracket down?  I've got two ideas, one hard to implement, and another easy.  Easy first.  1" piece of 1.5" x 1.5" x 3/8" Angle Iron [if it exists], with slots milled out for bolts.  bolt down the bracket.
18:06:03 <robin_sz> yes ...
18:06:11 <robin_sz> theres another way ...
18:06:13 <A-L-P-H-A> 2.) drill a hole in both the bracket and my table with a dowel
18:06:17 <robin_sz> do you have a welder?
18:06:27 <A-L-P-H-A> it's aluminium + cast iron.
18:06:35 <A-L-P-H-A> it's aluminium [bracket] + cast iron [base]
18:06:46 <robin_sz> t slotted base?
18:06:53 <robin_sz> T slotted base?
18:07:13 <A-L-P-H-A> dove tailed base.
18:08:07 <robin_sz> you have dove-tail grooves in the table on which this mount sits?
18:08:49 <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/2003-08-16_Mill_Converstion/ <-- milling base.  The bracket mounts to the part on top.
18:09:21 <A-L-P-H-A> that's a view from the front.  The bracket is for the Y-axis of the table.
18:10:45 <robin_sz> whatever, 1 bolt isnt going to do it
18:10:55 <robin_sz> 4 bolts in sslots maybe
18:13:24 <A-L-P-H-A> so how do you recommend doing this?
18:14:12 <picnet> picnet has quit
18:19:20 <robin_sz> i cant see the base from here, or the brackt
18:20:01 <robin_sz> os this the motor mount bracket?
18:20:08 <robin_sz> leadscrew mount bracket?
18:25:16 <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders a motenc-100 card.
18:25:48 <robin_sz> seems a LOT of io, but the price isnt that bad
18:44:13 <les> hi robin
18:44:24 <les> will be playing with one very soon
18:44:56 <les> yes 100 dio
18:46:06 <robin_sz> is this the 'new' vital card?
18:46:18 <robin_sz> or is there another top-secret one in production as well?
18:46:36 <robin_sz> 8 axes and all that io, it more than I need
18:47:55 <robin_sz> it is fairly awesome though
18:50:20 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, sorry was in the shower.  It's the ballscrew bracket.
18:50:26 <A-L-P-H-A> ballnet bracket.
18:50:31 <A-L-P-H-A> where the ball nut mounts too.
18:50:56 <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/2003-08-16_Mill_Converstion/DCP_0088.JPG the metal peice in the top middle is the bracket.
18:54:09 <robin_sz> * robin_sz looks
18:54:14 <les> robin: yes the Vital motenc-100
18:54:35 <robin_sz> yes this is the new one?
18:54:48 <robin_sz> or yes there is another on the way?
18:55:14 <les> yes this is the new one
18:55:18 <robin_sz> right
18:55:26 <les> no other on the way that I know of
18:55:30 <robin_sz> 'k
18:55:43 <robin_sz> more than enough for a 2 axis plasma
18:56:02 <les> It has not been tested on a real machine yet to my knowledge
18:56:08 <robin_sz> handy
18:56:16 <robin_sz> I'll leave that honour to someone else
18:56:26 <les> perhaps me
18:56:46 <robin_sz> hows segmot?
18:56:48 <les> looking at alpha's bracket picture...
18:57:05 <les> segmot is waiting for me to get free time!
18:57:09 <robin_sz> ahh
18:57:52 <A-L-P-H-A> any ideas?
18:57:52 <cradek> well I use it on my stepper machine - not sure if that counts as real or not
18:57:53 <les> Will get some very soon due to ice storm
18:58:14 <les> alpha: looking
18:58:17 <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders how you use a servo card on a stepper machine
18:58:22 <cradek> I was cutting nice blended arcs and lines a couple days ago
18:58:36 <cradek> robin_sz: it's steppersegmod or something like that
18:59:02 <les> chris: great
18:59:07 <les> servo right?
18:59:20 <robin_sz> oh you use segmot, not the vital card??
18:59:23 <cradek> no, it's stepper
18:59:31 <cradek> me?
18:59:37 <robin_sz> yes, you
18:59:50 <cradek> I use steppersegmod, parallel port, chopper drives, steppers
18:59:53 <les> alpha: not sure what I am seeing. let me read back a ways
18:59:54 <robin_sz> right
19:00:24 <robin_sz> we were talking about who would have the honour if using the motenc-100 card on a real machine
19:00:41 <robin_sz> and then asked about segmot
19:00:45 <cradek> oh, I totally misunderstood then
19:00:49 <robin_sz> ;))
19:01:01 <robin_sz> but you have segmot working fine with steppers?
19:01:03 <cradek> I thought you were talking about testing segmentqueue on a real machine
19:01:09 <robin_sz> thats .. encouraging
19:01:13 <cradek> yes, I only use the new planner now
19:01:16 <robin_sz> I might give that a go
19:01:26 <cradek> have been ever since I checked in the last fixes a month (?) ago
19:01:52 <cradek> the only strange thing I've seen is it sometimes doesn't blend the first move in the program because the queue hasn't filled enough yet
19:02:03 <cradek> I would like to see that fixed but I haven't dug into it at all.
19:02:11 <robin_sz> I sort of abandoned my emc afforts ages ago, but im tinking of having another play, having frightened myself with real systems again
19:02:24 <cradek> otherwise, it works great
19:02:28 <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
19:03:21 <cradek> this weekend I'm going to try cranking my spindle to about 20krpm
19:03:27 <robin_sz> coo
19:03:28 <cradek> for cutting pcbs faster
19:03:37 <robin_sz> oh, tiny spindle
19:03:45 <cradek> yep, tiny tools
19:03:53 <robin_sz> seen those aor spindles?
19:03:54 <cradek> the spindle handles 5/16" tools or so
19:03:56 <robin_sz> air
19:04:01 <cradek> heard of it, never seen one
19:04:04 <robin_sz> 160k rpm
19:04:10 <cradek> holy cow
19:04:15 <robin_sz> for engraving mainly
19:04:18 <cradek> yeah
19:04:26 <acemi> acemi has joined #emc
19:04:28 <cradek> my machine can only move 25ipm so 20krpm will let me cut at full speed.
19:05:03 <cradek> I have the new motor mount in place already, I'm going to try to turn some new pullies from Al round bar
19:05:23 <cradek> I'm worried about getting them perfectly balanced
19:05:39 <cradek> 2.5" dia at 20krpm makes the balance pretty critical
19:06:01 <cradek> actually I guess the big one on the motor won't be turning that fast
19:06:49 <les> I swing 1.5" at 21000
19:06:58 <les> no problem
19:07:19 <cradek> I'm worried that I have to reverse the pully in the lathe chuck to finish it, losing the center
19:07:41 <les> alpha: all I can say is that I through bolt and dowel ballscrew bearings
19:07:58 <cradek> I guess I'll do the best I can and see how badly it shakes
19:08:41 <les> machine the pulley on a mandrel
19:09:05 <cradek> the hole in the center will be very small
19:09:05 <paul_c> cradek: Machine the bore and then use a spigot to hold it when you have to machine the reverse side.
19:09:17 <les> how small?
19:09:24 <cradek> umm
19:09:27 <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/Mill%20Brackets/bracket%20profile.png
19:09:46 <cradek> maybe 1/4"
19:09:55 <cradek> 5-6mm
19:10:03 <A-L-P-H-A> les, so just use the mill, to drill it's own dowel hole, and press a pin through, into the bracket?
19:10:23 <cradek> not even sure if I can get a boring tool in there
19:10:47 <robin_sz> reamer
19:11:01 <cradek> yeah, if I have the right size
19:11:22 <les> Alpha: yes pretty much
19:11:44 <les> drill undersize and ream after it's mounted
19:11:47 <A-L-P-H-A> 1/4" think would do
19:12:07 <les> cradeck: I bore 1/8 a good bit
19:12:20 <les> up to about 0.5" deep
19:12:44 <cradek> les: do you grind that tool yourself?
19:12:45 <les> alpha: yes that is exactly what I use
19:12:57 <les> cradeck: yup
19:13:17 <cradek> les: I'll keep that in mind
19:13:32 <les> it's a pain but works
19:13:40 <A-L-P-H-A> les, you don't think something like JB weld would do the trick?
19:13:44 <cradek> les: I'm so spoiled by my carbide insert tools I hate to touch the grinder
19:14:03 <les> if you bore a tiny bit under and ream it usually comes out centered to .0005 or so
19:14:32 <cradek> I wonder if this is the kind of thing I should pay someone to make
19:14:40 <cradek> it will really be a struggle on my small lathe
19:14:43 <les> because it is hard to hold diameter with small hole boring
19:15:04 <les> well small part...small lathe...no problem
19:15:22 <cradek> 2.5" is not a small part for this machine!
19:15:32 <les> sherline?
19:15:32 <cradek> no way will it swing over the slide
19:15:36 <cradek> yes
19:15:45 <les> ok
19:15:55 <cradek> so I'll have to stick the tool off the end of the table to do the outside
19:16:23 <les> I could make you one
19:16:31 <les> no charge
19:16:43 <cradek> les: I really appreciate that - but let me see if I can do it first.
19:16:45 <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, what are you trying to make?
19:16:52 <les> k
19:16:58 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: just a set of pullies for my spindle
19:17:06 <A-L-P-H-A> oh, what's the dia?
19:17:19 <cradek> about 2.5" and 1.25"
19:17:20 <A-L-P-H-A> biggest OD, and the bore?
19:17:25 <cradek> they will have steps
19:17:58 <cradek> 2.5" - 1/4"  and something like 1.5" - 3/4"
19:18:06 <cradek> going from memory here
19:18:19 <A-L-P-H-A> the bore is 3/4"
19:18:30 <cradek> on the spindle yes, but on the motor it's smaller
19:18:49 <cradek> I think 1/4
19:18:50 <A-L-P-H-A> ahh. so two motors... two pulleys.  Where abouts are you?
19:19:00 <cradek> no, one on the motor, one on the spindle
19:19:13 <cradek> I'm in NE USA
19:19:14 <A-L-P-H-A> err. one motor, one spindle. :)
19:19:19 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in Toronto Canada.
19:19:37 <cradek> http://maxnc.com/page3.html
19:19:44 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
19:19:50 <cradek> see this setup?  my motor, motor mount, etc are different
19:19:56 <cradek> but the positioning is the same
19:20:16 <A-L-P-H-A> ahh yeah, I see it.
19:20:17 <cradek> I need to put a big pulley on the motor and a small one on the spindle
19:20:30 <A-L-P-H-A> get higher speeds I see.
19:21:01 <cradek> yeah I replaced the spindle motor with a DC speed-controlled one that has a max RPM of ~ 6000
19:21:12 <cradek> but it's powerful, so I can gear it way up
19:21:54 <cradek> their original motor, motor mount, speed control, etc are crap, so I've replaced it all, and also the stepper drivers
19:22:18 <les> what are the spindle bearings?
19:22:25 <cradek> good question
19:22:39 <cradek> they ran them at ~ 10k with the factory motor
19:22:54 <les> ok
19:23:10 <cradek> do you think they're ok?  I don't know anything about bearings but I was worried about that too.
19:23:37 <les> most bearings under about 15 mm grease lubed are ok for 20k
19:23:53 <cradek> I know they're sealed but I don't know what the lube is
19:24:19 <les> Of course bearing speed ratings can be violated with light loads
19:24:30 <cradek> oh this will be extremely light
19:24:38 <les> router bearings have a speed rating of about 12k
19:24:48 <cradek> cutting 5mil deep and 10mil across, or drilling very small holes
19:24:49 <les> and run at 20+
19:25:00 <les> but like about 500 hrs max
19:25:33 <cradek> well my plan was 1) "see if it explodes" 2) "see if it gets hot"
19:25:38 <les> I know what would be great for pwb milling...
19:25:43 <les> laminate trimmer
19:25:56 <A-L-P-H-A> I should go to my suppliers and pick up the part I order, that is the wrong size. (6-40 set screws, instead of 6-32. :( )
19:26:02 <cradek> some machines use a dremel
19:26:05 <les> 30k+
19:26:25 <robin_sz> I know someting even better
19:26:37 <les> ?
19:26:44 <robin_sz> its called an "etching tank"
19:26:50 <cradek> bah
19:26:53 <les> haha
19:27:19 <cradek> robin_sz: this is cheap, works great, and uses no chemicals
19:27:23 <A-L-P-H-A> les, so, the procress:  drill with a Letter C or D drill bit, chase with a 1/4" reamer [use cutting oil].  drop / press a dowel inside?
19:27:52 <A-L-P-H-A> C = .2420"  D = .2460"
19:28:14 <les> would have to hunt up c and d...but around .05 mm or so under
19:28:27 <robin_sz> cradek: I hacve etch here, two containers, and a pile of 'laser star' paper ...
19:28:40 <les> d looks good
19:28:47 <robin_sz> cradek: so long as you are having fun though
19:28:47 <A-L-P-H-A> closest is D, which is 0.1mm smaller.
19:29:29 <cradek> robin_sz: can you do 8 mil traces with 8 mil separation with that laser stuff?
19:29:38 <les> reamers usually cut a little over if they are asked to do much more than a few thousandths
19:29:47 <cradek> robin_sz: two traces between DIP pads?
19:29:49 <robin_sz> cradek: whats a mil?
19:29:57 <cradek> robin_sz: thousandth of an inch
19:30:05 <robin_sz> yeah
19:30:08 <cradek> .2 mm
19:30:17 <les> .02
19:30:19 <A-L-P-H-A> 8mil = 0.2mm
19:30:23 <robin_sz> 5 thou is best ive seen from ot as I rememebr
19:30:34 <robin_sz> 8 though would be ok
19:30:39 <cradek> this is the stuff you iron to the board?
19:30:43 <robin_sz> nah
19:30:46 <robin_sz> thats crap
19:30:49 <cradek> no kidding
19:30:52 <cradek> that's why I was so surprised
19:30:56 <cradek> what is "laser star" then?
19:31:00 <A-L-P-H-A> I get 10mil from lazer printer + photo paper + iron + etch.
19:31:03 <robin_sz> print onto laser star,
19:31:05 <A-L-P-H-A> etchant.
19:31:23 <robin_sz> put laser star over UV sensitive board,
19:31:28 <robin_sz> 20 ins in the light box 
19:31:35 <robin_sz> dunk in hcl
19:31:39 <robin_sz> wash
19:31:45 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I've tried that but I hate all the finicky work.
19:31:46 <robin_sz> dunk in fecl3
19:31:53 <cradek> robin_sz: aha
19:32:07 <robin_sz> I just have two plastic tubs
19:32:10 <cradek> robin_sz: is that the nasty brown stuff?
19:32:16 <robin_sz> yeah
19:32:21 <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, what finicky work?  I iron it own, peel [dry]... comes of easily.  You have to get certain type of paper photo papter.
19:32:49 <cradek> robin_sz: how do you align the sides for exposure?
19:33:08 <A-L-P-H-A> from print to etched board is 10 minutes.  + drilling time, and + design time.
19:33:19 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: you drill manually?
19:33:47 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I go blind at about hole 20
19:33:49 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.  not with my stupid mill right now.  There's sooo much backlash right now.
19:34:21 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I've done it that way, but I'll never go back as long as I live.
19:34:42 <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: you should try milling if you get your mill working decent
19:34:50 <robin_sz> cradek: easy ... print the two side
19:34:56 <A-L-P-H-A> I'd use the drill excellon (??) code, if I trusted my mill.
19:35:11 <A-L-P-H-A> the mill hasn't been turned on since early summer I think.
19:35:14 <robin_sz> sellotape them to a 1" wide strip of scrpa board
19:35:20 <robin_sz> scrap
19:35:37 <robin_sz> on to each side, aligning them perfectly
19:35:54 <robin_sz> place the baord inbetween
19:36:03 <cradek> robin_sz: ah, I didn't use scrap board and it was always a little off
19:36:22 <robin_sz> yeah, the scrap board really helps
19:36:41 <robin_sz> I fancy a little CNC pcb drill rig
19:36:56 <cradek> my procedure is: stick board to table, start emc, change tools when it prompts me, done.  (it cuts it out and everything)
19:37:18 <A-L-P-H-A> wth. someone tells me to make a phone call, and then proceeds to use the phone.  stupid.
19:37:26 <robin_sz> have you tried using a 'floating nose' engraver?
19:37:45 <cradek> no - this works just great as-is
19:37:59 <cradek> the board is surprisingly flat when stuck to the table with tape
19:38:06 <cradek> there's a scrap board under it so I can drill through 
19:38:32 <robin_sz> right
19:38:33 <cradek> I use the tape that's meant for taping down tiles to the floor
19:39:04 <cradek> it has fabric/string (?) in it 
19:39:16 <robin_sz> the current batch of board im playing with are 440mm x 200mm
19:39:21 <A-L-P-H-A> oh this is going to be fun... if the backlash it down to around 0.005" I'll be happy... atleast the software can compensate for that.
19:39:29 <robin_sz> I cant imagine how long that would take
19:39:35 <cradek> robin_sz: no kidding
19:39:41 <cradek> robin_sz: my working area is ~ 4x6"
19:39:45 <robin_sz> heh:)
19:39:57 <robin_sz> actually, it does exceed my process too
19:40:10 <robin_sz> I have to etch in 'two halves' :)
19:40:16 <cradek> robin_sz: this isn't for any kind of "batches" - it's just for my little projects.
19:40:22 <robin_sz> yeah
19:40:29 <robin_sz> my etch is just for ones offs
19:40:33 <cradek> robin_sz: 4x6" (eurocard) size FR4 boards are dirt cheap
19:40:43 <robin_sz> or 'lets make 4 like this and see if they blow up'
19:40:56 <cradek> yeah I guess I've made several of some things, but it's just for me
19:41:06 <cradek> my complicated stepper driver boards come to mind
19:41:12 <robin_sz> we have to do 'solder vias' whic is a pain
19:41:20 <cradek> agreed
19:41:55 <robin_sz> when we eventually get it right, we'll get em made properly
19:42:13 <robin_sz> ie not in europe :(
19:42:24 <cradek> I use 24ga wire and a #75 drill
19:42:34 <cradek> it's friction fit so you can cut short lengths and they stay in the board
19:42:53 <robin_sz> wanna hear my (brief) encounter with a local PCB manufacturer
19:43:01 <cradek> sometimes I thread the wire in and out of all the vias like I'm sewing with the wire, then solder them all and cut off all the scrap
19:43:19 <cradek> it's easy then because the wire can't fall out
19:43:36 <robin_sz> we normally get pcbs doen far east, but for some reason decided to try a local PCB guy ... gave him the gerber files and off he went
19:43:59 <robin_sz> there are 32 boards on a 'big board'
19:44:20 <robin_sz> and, we offered to nest the gerbers, but no . he cwould do that
19:44:33 <robin_sz> so they turn up. late.
19:44:47 <robin_sz> and .. each mini board is .010 too big
19:45:02 <les> I just tooled up the production board for the encoder I designed
19:45:03 <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, les, if I don't do the dowel? couldn't I just drill and tap a second hole?
19:45:10 <les> the protos were milled
19:45:17 <robin_sz> so .. board 8 on a strip of 8 is .080 too far to the left
19:45:27 <robin_sz> does it fit the solder mask, NO.
19:45:27 <cradek> oops...
19:45:33 <pemmet> pemmet has quit
19:45:48 <robin_sz> and this idiot stands there and srgues why it not wrong really
19:45:52 <robin_sz> argues
19:46:16 <cradek> haha solder mask being off 80 mils seems a little wrong to me
19:46:19 <robin_sz> how our gerber must be wrong (we pulled it up on the screen and put cursors on it etc)
19:46:31 <les> alpha: you can do that...the dowel just allows precise reassembly and stability
19:46:44 <les> if the forces are small just bolt it on
19:46:56 <robin_sz> well, we already had the solder mask, all they had to do was place a grid of 4 x 8 of our gerbers on a baord
19:47:19 <robin_sz> anyway, rather than correct the problem and apologise, he argued black was white
19:47:47 <cradek> oh, he didn't apply the mask for you, I see
19:48:14 <robin_sz> nope. all he had to do was make the board to the spec we gave,
19:48:46 <robin_sz> anyway, as we slung him out, we showed him the pile of 25,000 we use every month
19:48:57 <robin_sz> then he started to grovel :)
19:49:10 <cradek> sorry bud, too late
19:49:14 <robin_sz> quite
19:49:44 <robin_sz> we did try another UK board house, but that was even funnier, so we stayed with the far east
19:50:07 <robin_sz> (the rep failed to show up, but his mum phoned in to say he was ill)
19:50:30 <cradek> hmm
19:50:32 <les> heh...I kind of had enough of pcbs after working at a company that makes them
19:50:35 <robin_sz> his mum! .. she could at least have pretended to be his secretary!
19:50:42 <les> haw
19:50:45 <cradek> not a good sign
19:50:49 <robin_sz> quite
19:51:06 <robin_sz> far-east have always made em nice. no worries. 
19:51:16 <cradek> that's worse than "he's off at class"
19:51:25 <robin_sz> only snag is (as with everyting over there) cash up front
19:51:34 <robin_sz> and 2 months lead time
19:52:05 <robin_sz> so you basically need 2 months worth of prodcution money just to get the stuff in
19:52:25 <robin_sz> another month passes whilst it gets built into product
19:52:31 <robin_sz> another before the customer pays
19:53:34 <robin_sz> sigh
19:53:39 <robin_sz> * robin_sz stops complainng
19:57:14 <les> I chose this company to manufacture my encoder tronics:
19:57:18 <les> http://www.bit7.com/#
19:57:40 <les> I designed the pcb on protel though.
19:58:18 <les> They were fairly copetitive with far east firms
19:58:54 <les> You ought to see how fast their pick and place machines are
20:01:41 <les> But to be honest...my tronics are just tied together ap notes haha
20:01:48 <les> like most?
20:02:04 <cradek> yep, probably so
20:02:46 <cradek> I would have never picked them because their web site sucks.
20:03:00 <les> yes it does
20:03:09 <cradek> "wave your mouse over all this crap and see if some content appears"
20:03:09 <les> really poor
20:03:58 <les> but I had them do the BMW no moving parts fuel sensor and they did a great job...in spite of their web site design
20:04:26 <cradek> you mean fuel level?
20:04:31 <les> yes
20:04:40 <cradek> how do you do that without a float?
20:05:08 <les> a special lossy lightpipe that hangs down in the tank
20:05:51 <les> optical
20:05:57 <cradek> huh, I thought this technology was pretty much settled
20:06:08 <cradek> what's the advantage?
20:06:41 <les> no float...no cermet or wire sender ...MUCH lower price
20:07:08 <cradek> is it separate from the fuel pump?
20:07:26 <les> no it is on the pump assembly
20:07:39 <cradek> interesting
20:07:57 <les> a little very funny shaped stick of ULTEM
20:08:44 <les> That did the best in "bad" gas
20:09:03 <les> in many parts of the world fuel quality is very poor
20:09:12 <les> full of mud
20:09:19 <les> full of aromatics
20:12:02 <les> Ultimately some production may end up in the far east
20:12:18 <les> But early on at least we keep it close
20:12:41 <les> not really my decision
20:12:58 <les> But I would rather go to Chicago than China
20:13:05 <les> heh
20:13:47 <les> Anyway all those had prototype boards that were milled
20:13:53 <les> Why?
20:14:01 <les> No good reason
20:14:34 <les> We had a little desktop unit that was bought for something else
20:14:47 <les> It cost 10k
20:14:59 <les> 12x12 inch capability
20:15:23 <les> ran most with .01 mill
20:15:40 <les> had a little air spindle
20:15:50 <les> 50krpm or something like that
20:16:30 <les> no plated through holes though
20:17:01 <les> but that was ok...we try to avoid them on surface mount anyway
20:19:12 <acemi> there are INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE in emc.ini.  are these used only with servo motor?
20:20:16 <les> with all I think
20:20:46 <les> I do not use the stepper version so not really sure
20:28:31 <rayh> rayh has joined #emc
20:28:34 <robin_sz> in stepper, they have to be identical, or Bad Things(tm) happen
20:29:07 <robin_sz> some people might say 'why not have it only pay attention to one of them in stepper then?' .. but they are jsut weird
20:29:25 <les> heh
20:29:35 <robin_sz> anyone got any experience of 3d stuff
20:29:51 <robin_sz> as in point cloud stuff
20:30:10 <les> I have done a little
20:30:31 <robin_sz> how do you create an surface from them?
20:30:34 <robin_sz> eg stl
20:30:46 <les> remember...I put sculpture in inky water and took a picture
20:31:08 <les> rhino can do that I think
20:31:18 <robin_sz> hmm
20:31:53 <les> possibly even fit a NURBS surface to them
20:32:02 <robin_sz> hmm, that would be kewl
20:32:16 <les> yup
20:32:27 <robin_sz> I have some sample point cloud stuff
20:32:40 <les> I just don't do that much...3 axis 3-d is soooo slow
20:33:22 <robin_sz> and a rho
20:33:27 <robin_sz> and a rhino demp
20:33:29 <robin_sz> demo
20:33:35 <les> grab evaluation rhino and go to it
20:33:40 <les> ah hahah
20:34:10 <les> rho? demp?
20:34:16 <les> hehe as bad as me
20:34:17 <robin_sz> bah. typo
20:34:24 <les> another micro stroke
20:34:30 <les> haha
20:35:38 <les> well I cannot paint today...too cold.
20:36:03 <les> Better clean up the house a little...will prob have some guests soon
20:36:18 <les> Neighbors with electric heat pumps
20:36:37 <les> power will prob be off soon and for days
20:36:54 <les> very bad ice storm brewing
20:37:51 <robin_sz> coo
20:37:58 <robin_sz> sounds fun
20:38:12 <les> no generator either
20:38:18 <les> bluh
20:38:27 <robin_sz> thats possibly a mistake ;0)
20:38:38 <les> i'll say
20:38:40 <robin_sz> you have generator?
20:39:05 <les> My dad has an extra to give me but it's down in FL
20:39:16 <les> So i did not buy one
20:39:59 <les> what work can I get done with an alladin lamp in the shop?
20:41:17 <rayh> les: That storm got you pretty good, eh.
20:41:44 <les> They bought a bigger one down there due to power outages lasting as long as a month
20:41:53 <les> ray: hits tonight
20:42:10 <les> last one had no power for 5 days
20:44:26 <rayh> Better you than me.  Got those quite often in Oregon while there.
20:45:17 <les> Almost never got them in Chicago
20:54:28 <A-L-P-H-A> this is awesome... I ordered the wrong part from my supplier.  I ordered #6-40 set screws by accident.  But when I went to pick them up, they gave me #6-32. :) sweet.
20:55:00 <A-L-P-H-A> k, went out and bought a C and D drill... about to have some fun to drill the bracket into place.
20:55:02 <A-L-P-H-A> horray.
20:55:06 <les> Funny thing I have always noticed about 6-32....
20:55:10 <A-L-P-H-A> FUNZ!
20:55:17 <les> taps break unusually easily
20:55:37 <A-L-P-H-A> cause they're really thin.
20:55:54 <A-L-P-H-A> I was hand tapping the stainless steel motor coupling I made.
20:55:58 <les> 4-40 does not break for me
20:56:01 <A-L-P-H-A> i felt the tap twist, so I backed off.
20:56:13 <A-L-P-H-A> I've only had 4-40, and 5-40 taps break on me.
20:56:17 <les> or even 0-80
20:56:19 <A-L-P-H-A> no 6-32.
20:56:27 <les> that is the smallest tap I have
20:56:31 <A-L-P-H-A> I've never tapped something that small.  never needed to.
20:57:06 <les> I used 0-80 socket head cap screws on a project
20:57:18 <A-L-P-H-A> what was the project? a model of some sort?
20:57:37 <les> That encoder I talked about earlier
20:57:51 <A-L-P-H-A> oh, I wasn't here... I guess I'll readup
20:57:54 <les> just for the prototypes
20:59:05 <les> I bought a bag of 100 hex keys for them
20:59:09 <les> tiny
20:59:24 <les> looked like little wire L
20:59:50 <les> I think about .030 flat to flat
21:00:16 <A-L-P-H-A> tiny
21:00:19 <A-L-P-H-A> very tiny
21:00:29 <A-L-P-H-A> what kinda encoders?
21:00:40 <les> tap drill is...um er #56 I think
21:00:52 <les> absolute encoders
21:00:56 <A-L-P-H-A> I use #60 to drill my boards.
21:01:16 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not fimiliar with that... like the type on my digital calipre?
21:01:23 <A-L-P-H-A> brb... my coffee is done.
21:01:25 <les> yes
21:01:29 <les> k
21:08:05 <A-L-P-H-A> how do those work anyways?
21:09:10 <A-L-P-H-A> I've never taken one apart... so I don't know how it works. :)
21:10:17 <gezr> sup
21:11:09 <A-L-P-H-A> not much... building the nerve to drill, ream my milling table, to put a dowel into it, to lock the bracket in place.
21:11:47 <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/Mill%20Brackets/bracket%20profile.png I'm gonna do it somewhere along the rounded segment, and the sholdar... as far out as I can...
21:12:47 <rayh> rayh has quit
21:13:02 <gezr> you are going to use a taper pin right?
21:13:21 <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, one end has a slight taper to get it into the hole.
21:13:31 <A-L-P-H-A> the other is flat.
21:14:08 <gezr> I mean the whole pin is tapered :)
21:14:21 <A-L-P-H-A> no
21:14:36 <A-L-P-H-A> I got the straight dowels.
21:14:47 <A-L-P-H-A> 1/4" in various lengths.  1" 1.5" 2"
21:15:00 <gezr> ah, cool
21:15:39 <gezr> just as effective, but with a tapered hole, if you get a miss alignment over time, you just re-position and re-ream the hole and insert pin 
21:15:45 <A-L-P-H-A> went and bought a C and D letter drills, (.2520 and .2460" respectively).
21:16:28 <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not worried about the bracket.  I'm worried about my mill MUCH more.
21:16:44 <gezr> what happed to your mill?
21:18:00 <A-L-P-H-A> umm... well... I cracked the base [non structural part] bye ramming nylon lock nut onto the ballscrew, the base cracked from the impact wrench I was using... I couldn't get the nut on otherwise.
21:18:02 <A-L-P-H-A> but right now.
21:18:32 <A-L-P-H-A> what's wrong is the mill's backlash is caused by the twisting of the bracket from the bolt/mount area.  As it's only held in place with 1 bolt.
21:19:03 <A-L-P-H-A> so I need to prevent the bracket from moving.  I can feel it move...
21:19:11 <A-L-P-H-A> brb
21:20:06 <gezr> im going to have to use the cad to redesign my blast cabinet, I have come to the conclusion that I need a pyrimid bottom
21:20:54 <les> I could use a blast cabinet too...but just about out of floor space
21:22:24 <rayh> rayh has joined #emc
21:22:41 <gezr> I guess I could take a quick photo of it, you guys want to see it in its rough draft?
21:22:49 <rayh> Anyone using or know of someone using solid edge with emc?
21:22:50 <les> sure
21:23:04 <gezr> les : give me a few moments then okay?
21:23:10 <les> ok
21:23:53 <les> ray:no...use artcam, millwrite, and Mastercam
21:24:21 <les> They all have postprocessors that work fine with emc
21:24:50 <les> use millwrite mostly
21:25:07 <rayh> Thanks les.
21:25:17 <les> heh
21:26:02 <les> I have heard of solid edge but never saw it
21:26:07 <les> searching now
21:27:11 <les> oh...that's a cad program
21:27:43 <rayh> If I remember edgecam is the cam part of it.
21:28:13 <les> oh
21:28:20 <les> looks real high end
21:30:11 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, post them up. :)
21:32:30 <les> ray: fancy site for solidedge...all those straeming video demonstrations
21:32:43 <les> streaming haha
21:34:54 <A-L-P-H-A> holy crap... half a tangerine... and 21 seeds...
21:35:01 <A-L-P-H-A> this tangerine sucks.
21:35:27 <rayh> Un huh streaming at 1.2k
21:37:44 <A-L-P-H-A> anyone working on some neat projects that want to share photos of?
21:37:52 <A-L-P-H-A> or even past projects?
21:40:17 <A-L-P-H-A> damn this tangerine.. finally finsihed it... 31 seeds that I counted... + any that I may have swallowed unknowingly.
21:43:21 <gezr> www.masternode.net/gallery   they are in the machining pages
21:44:50 <A-L-P-H-A> wood?
21:44:56 <gezr> yeah
21:45:06 <gezr> I dont have a high pressure system, wood is fine
21:45:15 <A-L-P-H-A> wouldn't it have been cheaper to make it out of metal?
21:45:19 <A-L-P-H-A> sheet metal?
21:45:38 <gezr> nope
21:45:45 <gezr> I dont own a break
21:45:50 <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
21:46:00 <A-L-P-H-A> I bought a manual break for like I think $40CDN.
21:46:02 <A-L-P-H-A> 36"
21:46:08 <gezr> too small
21:46:14 <A-L-P-H-A> works well enough for me.
21:46:21 <gezr> oh I bet it does
21:46:31 <gezr> that thing will work perfectly for me :)
21:46:56 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, not like it'd be hard to make one... just two pieces of angel iron, with hinge plates mounted on both ends... welded together.
21:46:59 <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
21:46:59 <gezr> I am going to make the pyramidal bottom though, im going to draft that up now
21:47:08 <A-L-P-H-A> looks good... just surprised that you made it out of wood. :)
21:47:37 <gezr> oh I dont have a welder either
21:48:00 <A-L-P-H-A> oh.  then never mind.
21:49:07 <gezr> all those parts for the most part were cut at the home depot(they should pay me, but as it is, thats free advertising)
21:49:34 <gezr> it all fit in my trunk, I had to fold down a back seat so that the long 2x4 could fit
21:50:18 <gezr> they wont cut angles, so Ill have to buy a jig saw now, and maybe a circular but a jig saw is perfect for home use, and a bit safer
21:50:52 <rayh> paul_c: Got a modified compile_bditng script that runs config and make.
21:51:03 <gezr> you see what Im talking about at the bottom whre the V is, that wont work unless I put 50lbs of bead down there
21:52:02 <robin_sz> * robin_sz hits the sherry
21:53:29 <paul_c> rayh: Great - Going to commit it to SF ?
21:54:06 <rayh> Sure.  What should I call it?
21:54:21 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, why not just put two channels down on the side, to create your upside down pyramid?
21:54:25 <robin_sz> call it "brian"
21:54:42 <A-L-P-H-A> callit "Blue" blue is always a nice color.
21:54:55 <A-L-P-H-A> "gizmodo"
21:55:01 <rayh> config_brian_blue?
21:55:14 <rayh> That's a nice name!
21:55:19 <A-L-P-H-A> I like gizmodo. :)
21:55:19 <robin_sz> ftang_ftang_ole_biscuitbarrel?
21:55:58 <robin_sz> although, thats a bit too common
21:56:33 <rayh> Is that a libretto?  If so what tune do you do it to?
21:57:06 <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : I may be able to keep some of the existing shape, I dont know yet
21:57:07 <A-L-P-H-A> call it "Microsoft_outlook" and scare people away.
21:57:39 <robin_sz> the original was "Tarquin Fintimlinbinwhinbimlim Bus Stop F'tang F'tang Ole Biscuit-Barrel", but I digress
21:58:10 <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, what happens when you say, angle/tile the base?  wouldn't all the media shift to one side?
21:58:35 <robin_sz> depends
21:58:36 <rayh> How about compile_tillie?
21:58:50 <robin_sz> in the northern hemisphere it would shift to the right,
21:58:51 <A-L-P-H-A> tillie... sounds like a garden tool.
21:58:58 <rayh> Is that the senior diaper?
21:59:40 <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to remeber what diaper translates to
21:59:45 <A-L-P-H-A> I like "gizmodo" :)
21:59:53 <A-L-P-H-A> napkin?
22:00:00 <robin_sz> right
22:00:35 <A-L-P-H-A> "gizmodo huggies" hehe.
22:00:40 <rayh> Okay.  If I name it gizmodo Matt's gonna jump all over me again.
22:01:08 <A-L-P-H-A> sounds like a stuffed animal name a geek chick would give to one of her toys.
22:01:17 <A-L-P-H-A> why?
22:01:33 <rayh> There's a variable in tkemc named whizbang.
22:01:41 <robin_sz> hmmm
22:03:19 <A-L-P-H-A> btw, what are we naming?
22:03:30 <A-L-P-H-A> we I mean, rayh.
22:04:12 <rayh> a script that compiles emc1 using configure.
22:05:52 <cradek> isn't it ./configure and then make?
22:06:24 <cradek> (I haven't triedused configure in emc1 yet)
22:06:26 <rayh> Yep.  With four makes in two directories.
22:06:38 <cradek> ah
22:07:17 <rayh> spose I could wrap it up in tcl/tk and make it look like an installer for that other os.
22:07:42 <A-L-P-H-A> why not just use BASH source install_script
22:08:40 <rayh> There are several install scripts in the nearly dead emc/scripts/generic directory already.
22:08:58 <cradek> I think you should remove dead scripts
22:09:07 <rayh> Has anyone run the config stuff for emc1 with 2.20
22:09:46 <rayh> Yes I will get a mop and pail and ask sf to clean out the junk in there.
22:10:31 <paul_c> the autoconfig stuff hasn't been tested with 2.20
22:11:19 <rayh> Okay.  When I get a chance I'll try it here.
22:11:36 <rayh> * rayh gotta run.
22:11:38 <rayh> rayh has quit
22:12:00 <A-L-P-H-A> oh man... that stupid cube I made last night... it's sooo well balanced... I can flick it, and it just keeps spining between my finger and the desk.
22:41:26 <robin_sz> mmm, rhino is kewl, but surfacing a point cloud doesnt seem to be in there
22:41:35 <robin_sz> except with a 250 dollar plugin
22:42:57 <robin_sz> wonder of there are other ways to bind a surface to a point cloud ...
22:43:03 <robin_sz> more ... err ...
22:43:05 <robin_sz> cheaply
22:44:03 <asdfqwega> robin_sz:  You could always get a favor from a college student
22:44:32 <robin_sz> asdfqwega: your kidding, fun though that may be, my wife would kill me.
22:45:07 <asdfqwega> Okay, who has a dirty mind?
22:45:15 <robin_sz> * robin_sz raises his hand
22:45:28 <asdfqwega> Scratch that question!
22:46:24 <asdfqwega> My brother Tim is studying animation, and he's got access to (expensive) software
22:46:31 <paul_c> robin_sz: CoP to STL is trivial
22:46:50 <paul_c> Use VTK
22:46:53 <robin_sz> paul_c: it is?
22:46:59 <robin_sz> vtk ... hmmm
22:47:21 <asdfqwega> Vertices To ?
22:47:27 <paul_c> it has a CoP import from what I remember.
22:47:55 <paul_c> vtk - Visualisation Tool Kit
22:48:47 <robin_sz> I know, I have it already
22:50:52 <asdfqwega> CoP would be somewhat easy to write a script for, but I don't know any file formats for export
22:53:41 <robin_sz> i just didnt realise it would surface a CoP ... 
22:54:10 <robin_sz> the trouble with VTK is its just a set of libraries and a few demos. it needs someone ot build a killer app with it.
22:55:56 <asdfqwega> How does VTK compare with OpenCascade?
22:57:07 <asdfqwega> The only thing I've ever managed to get working with OC is the GraphiteOne CAD binary
22:57:27 <paul_c> vtk is a totally different library
22:57:36 <picnet> picnet has quit
22:58:38 <asdfqwega> Apples <> oranges, I get it
23:10:40 <robin_sz> * robin_sz installs VTK on one of his debian boxes
23:10:50 <asdfqwega> Hehe...From the FAQ - "How do I learn VTK?"
23:10:58 <robin_sz> readthat
23:11:04 <asdfqwega>  Buy Bill a beer and get him talking about VTK
23:11:26 <robin_sz> doesnt mention point cloud at all in the faq
23:11:49 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega needs to install Debian on his upper-end machine
23:13:34 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega lights a bonfire to stay warm
23:19:28 <robin_sz> hmmm ... ive been irc'ing for too long
23:19:52 <robin_sz> I just said, as a sort of half audible commentary 
23:20:26 <robin_sz> "slash me blows his nose" as I blew my nose ... my wife thinks I might be mad.
23:22:58 <picnet> picnet has joined #emc
23:33:16 <asdfqwega> robin_sz:  I don't think anyone has any doubt on that by now ;)
23:33:40 <robin_sz> * robin_sz bleats like a sheep
23:34:17 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega bleats a drum
23:36:13 <robin_sz> time flies like an arrow
23:36:17 <robin_sz> but ...
23:36:23 <robin_sz> fruit flies like a banana
23:47:44 <asdfqwega> Gah!
23:47:49 <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega holds nose
23:48:37 <A-L-P-H-A> Got it figured out now... I'm gonna loose 1/2" to 1" of Y axis travel... :( it'll be sturdy.  Going to put a 3/8 or 1/2" plate which be bolted to the backside of the y-axis crossslide, and bolt on a floating flange (flange + ball nut).  I don't have enough space to drill and put a dowel in place.
23:49:26 <A-L-P-H-A> actually, screw the floating flange... I'll just put the ballnut to that bracket.
23:49:53 <paul_c> * paul_c builds BDI-4.12
23:50:41 <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, where's BDI-4.12 gonna be located? Sherline?  Ever thought about putting up a bittorrent for the BDIs?
23:52:54 <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: no, you're going to *lose* 1/2" to 1" ...
23:53:09 <A-L-P-H-A> lose. yeah.
23:53:16 <A-L-P-H-A> loosey goosey.
23:54:53 <paul_c> Gonna try and get the ISO on a number of servers, and maybe persuade Sherline to host it as well.
23:55:20 <A-L-P-H-A> How big will this iso be?  I maybe able to host it for a short while on one of my servers.
23:55:34 <A-L-P-H-A> or why not sourceforge?
23:55:36 <paul_c> ~630Megs
23:56:02 <paul_c> SF doesn't like ISOs on their servers.
23:56:16 <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
23:57:07 <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.phpwebhosting.com/ ?
23:58:36 <websys> http://powweb.com ?
23:59:05 <robin_sz> is this a debian based BDI?
23:59:11 <robin_sz> or still dedrat?
23:59:12 <paul_c> yup
23:59:16 <robin_sz> kewl
23:59:25 <paul_c> Debian
23:59:33 <robin_sz> so, why not just put the .debs up on a source?
23:59:46 <A-L-P-H-A> wow. that's CHEAP! $7.77