10:14:49 logger_aj has joined #emc 10:14:49 topic is: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT 10:14:49 Users on #emc: logger_aj alex_joni picnet vasquez @ChanServ thalx A-L-P-H-A les ccjoe gezr learath zwisk anonimasu danfalck websys jepler cradek @pc_op 10:15:02 alex_joni_ has joined #emc 10:25:04 alex_joni has quit 10:32:29 picnet has quit 10:48:59 alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni 11:36:03 alex_joni has left #emc 11:56:33 picnet has joined #emc 12:23:45 paul_c has joined #emc 12:29:49 slomo has joined #emc 12:40:01 picnet has quit 12:45:27 morning 13:05:33 Afternoon.. 13:08:17 a common people, seperated by timezones 13:08:53 Set your clock to GMT, end of problem ;} 13:09:38 but that doesn't change the fact it;'s still morning :) 13:11:27 the flakey install went south, for good 13:13:38 eh 13:13:41 :) 13:14:00 New emc package uploaded to the repository. 13:14:37 gezr: cant you do the valve job yourself? 13:15:11 if you dont have to change valve seats and guides its not that much work 13:15:40 anonimasu: lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly 13:15:55 slomo: for what? 13:16:02 finally to the point of emc not starting at all 13:16:13 slomo: changing seats are expensive.. 13:16:24 ? 13:16:36 "lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly" 13:16:37 what do you mean 13:17:20 started emc from cl, it loads the modules, errors out with the above 13:18:48 oops lack of shm 13:19:00 yeah 13:20:56 so now i'm using bdi-tng 13:22:56 You didn't want to give BDI-4.08 a try then ? 13:24:30 if it has an initrd and lilo, i'd love to 13:25:05 this fsking scsi will not accept grub as a boot loader 13:26:50 grub is the default loader.... But the initrd image is generated.. 13:31:48 well, i'll give it a shot then 13:41:14 before i blew away the flakey install, i did get to exercise the the motors, hooked up to the router..... 13:41:38 got the best performance using the sherline inch setup 13:47:09 asdfqwega has joined #emc 13:48:34 morning or afternoon all 13:56:57 it's 0 dark:30 here 13:57:07 picnet has joined #emc 14:05:53 Daylight has snuck in over here, got itself a coffee, and now sits in the corner. It gives me the finger whenever I glance over. 14:07:21 paul_c: I've just tried to apt-get the .debs from the ntlworld.com repository into Live rc46 hd install 14:09:11 The whole console backlog is filled with "depmod: Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.6.9-adeos/..... 14:09:15 did it work ? 14:10:19 which package produced the errors ? 14:11:54 I think that was the kernel image 14:14:09 Okay...just a quick overwrite of the few files in /usr/local/emc...and it's done 14:15:43 Is a initrd.img necessary? If so, I think I may have to add debian-Sarge repositories into the sources 14:16:04 I just started with the sources.list that was installed 14:16:37 check that module-init-tools is installed. 14:19:52 That's right, I forgot that this is a transition from a 2.4 to a 2.6 kernel 14:21:37 Man, you gotta love apt - it's even better than urpmi :) 14:22:38 asdfqwega: so did you get emc to run ? 14:22:51 Not yet 14:22:54 Short of adding a dependency for module-init-tools... But that would require rebuilding the kernel package, and may break on a future build... 14:24:05 paul_c: did you just update the repository this morning with emc_0.0.10 ? 14:24:13 yes 14:24:55 I just updated, and it was getting emc_0.0.9 - and couldn't find it :P 14:25:09 emc-0.0.1-10 has additional dependencies for tcl & tk wich were missing from earlier builds. 14:25:38 No changes to the source code though. 14:26:11 Hm, do I want to be brave or stupid, and do an apt-get upgrade? 14:26:45 * paul_c suspects KDE-3.3 may break things... 14:27:25 I had to cut out the 3 experimental repositories out of the sources.list 14:27:28 synaptic certainly doesn't work as well as it did. 14:27:31 They just weren't there 14:30:07 back after lunch 14:30:54 vasquez has left #emc 14:31:22 I'm going to follow an old rule of thumb [also know as "Rules to prevent losing thumbs"] 14:31:34 "Go almost, but not quite, too far." 15:26:45 vasquez has joined #emc 15:26:59 Evening vasquez 15:27:08 hey paul_c 15:44:12 picnet has quit 15:46:56 paul_c: I've managed to make an initrd.img for the 2.6.9-adeos kernel 15:47:14 And just now I've tried running depmod 15:47:34 And I'm not certain if everything is OK... 15:48:06 A long string of "This modules needs that modules", and nothing seems to have changed 15:49:02 check the status of the kernel-image package 15:53:21 dpkg says OK 15:53:49 * asdfqwega goes to satisfy addiction to dihydrogen monoxide 15:56:43 Hmmm.... Coffee & fag.... 15:57:43 picnet has joined #emc 16:17:48 paul_c: Why does the grub menu.lst have a bunch of hdx=scsi entries? 16:18:06 This is something I've noticed now that I've started playing with Debian/Knoppix 16:19:44 It's to handle and IDE drive like it was SCSI, right? 16:19:53 Why would that be necessary? 16:20:40 It's probably not necessary 16:21:08 It is probably to make CD burners work -- you need 'hdx=scsi' for that, at least in kernel 2.4 and before 16:21:15 Using Mandrake, I only used to have to add an ide-scsi item for CD burners - but even that's become depreciated 16:22:23 for bdi-live it specifies hdx=scsi for every drive since it can't autodetect the CD burner 16:22:43 The Live grub menu was designed as a "catch all" without resorting to kudzu. 16:23:31 * asdfqwega working in linux = one shell open to work, n number of shells for man pages 16:24:31 I was just debating switching it over from grub to lilo 16:24:51 grub is easier to work with... 16:25:19 For you, perhaps; I'm already quite familiar with lilo 16:25:48 The menu.lst format is pretty straight-forward 16:26:17 I'm just not certain if I'm ready to change it 16:29:05 if you ever need to add a new kernel, only menu.lst needs updating 16:29:24 no re-installing to the MBR 16:32:45 Hm...there's a miniroot.gz in / 16:32:52 That would be for the 2.4.25 16:32:58 http://cimweb.cim.fh-aalen.de/emc/bdi-4.08.iso = 12+ hours to go ? 16:33:35 You lucky dog, only 12+ hours? 16:34:06 I can do short bursts for apt-get on my satlink, but the .iso would take a full week 16:34:07 asdfqwega: That miniroot.gz can be deleted. 16:35:09 * paul_c has a 10Mbit connection to download BDI-4.08.iso over. 16:35:31 picnet has quit 16:39:08 paul_c: is that the 81.100 addy ? 16:39:11 @#$%^&!!! 16:39:50 slomo: 192.168.0.124 16:39:51 Grub: Error 11: Unrecognized device string 16:44:05 paul_c: ?? 16:44:47 behind a firewall on the local network. 16:46:03 paul_c: i'm not familiar with that procedure 16:49:43 paul_c: i think i've got it, but it's about the same time 16:56:08 asdfqwega: try this : http://www.fifi.org/doc/grub-doc/html/grub_11.html#SEC31 17:05:46 robin_sz has joined #emc 17:15:04 vasquez has quit 17:17:10 vasquez has joined #emc 17:36:51 zwisk has quit 17:36:51 danfalck has quit 17:37:29 zwisk has joined #emc 17:37:29 danfalck has joined #emc 17:45:01 vasquez has quit 17:58:24 picnet has joined #emc 18:02:36 Thanks, slomo 18:03:12 dave-e has joined #emc 18:04:07 asdfqwega: figure it out ? 18:04:52 Not really...I wouldn't work, and then I tried using the grub command line. 18:05:26 I put in the right stuff, and booted it up. Then I checked grub's menu.lst, and nothing was wrong, so I booted it again. 18:05:43 And then it worked just fine. 18:05:46 Go figure. 18:06:45 I can see the advantage of a command line in the bootloader 18:09:27 asdfqwega: so are you still getting depmod errors ? 18:14:38 No 18:15:26 I just tried to start EMC Generic, and it fails to load with a long string of rtai_alloc errors 18:16:03 I think I may have to remove the old /usr/local/emc directories and re-install the .debs 18:27:39 paul: would the emc .deb need anything in /usr/local/rcslib? 18:42:47 Imperator_ has joined #emc 19:00:15 picnet has quit 19:49:15 dave-e has quit 19:59:06 picnet has joined #emc 20:07:38 asdfqwega: the 2.6.9 EMC deb uses libnml and no longer uses anything in loca/rcslib 20:08:51 meep? 20:09:07 wot ? 20:11:34 isnt that enough? 20:12:42 No. 20:14:39 Evening 20:14:49 picnet! 20:14:58 Hi robin 20:15:05 Happy new year & all that jazz. 20:15:11 * picnet is 11 days late. 20:15:29 white rabbits 20:15:44 Valkonen Pupu. 20:19:09 storms hit uk yet? 20:21:55 yup - Quite breezy 20:22:49 been iffy here also. 20:23:58 seen les? 20:24:04 nope 20:24:37 must find out how heavy the gantry on his router/mill is ... 20:24:40 just for info 20:25:46 been working on a design for a hi-def plasma / router 20:26:02 as in high resolution? 20:26:10 sorta 20:26:18 hm, fine-beam plasma.. 20:26:30 is what they call it in sweden 20:26:30 :9 20:26:42 the 'hi definition' plasma uses mixed gases instead of air, gets a narrowerm sharper cut 20:26:51 still a way off laser . 20:26:52 i see 20:26:53 hm, they have other nozzles also.. 20:26:59 * robin_sz nods 20:27:11 Skodaginen. 20:27:12 but well, laser dosent compare to plasma in input/output power 20:27:30 ? ... bout the same no? 20:27:56 most high def plasam are around 200A @ 120V 20:28:14 I have no idea 20:28:17 My projects halted right no, no space to build the machine. Im toying with the idea of cnc'ing the sieg X2 instead. 20:28:24 no=now. 20:28:34 that sounds like a small unit 20:28:35 :9 20:28:38 I guess most lasers are similar sort of input powers 20:28:59 picnet: dou your wife and kids sleep inside the house? 20:29:05 yes 20:29:19 picnet: do you have tables and chairs in your living room? 20:29:26 no 20:29:30 kitchen yes 20:29:38 sofas? 20:29:41 yes 20:29:48 but what does a laser that'll cut 2" cost ;) 20:29:54 * anonimasu is curious 20:29:55 well, lets cut out this 'no room' nonsense then :) 20:30:07 oh loads and loads 20:30:15 :) 20:30:31 infact .. I think youd need ... at least ... 6kw 20:30:40 argh 20:30:42 :] 20:31:12 my plasma cuts galvanised sheet cleaner than my laser 20:32:35 * paul_c wonders who 12.32.62.102 is.... 20:34:19 :) 20:38:05 lemme guess.... anonimasu ? 20:40:25 alaska 20:40:47 anonimasu is in .se 20:41:39 must be slomo hammering my bandwidth then.. 20:41:58 the name is japanese 20:43:31 not a very original word 20:44:42 I've been an0n for as long as I can remember.. 20:44:48 and a guy at a lan was named the same.. 20:44:54 although without zero.. 20:44:59 so I changed nick 20:45:11 Was he the imposter? 20:45:47 yep 20:45:56 but it was time to change anyway 20:46:06 insert him into the matter transporter and press "go" 20:46:14 I thought about it.. 20:46:42 mills are great! ^_^ 20:47:00 just kidding 20:47:02 I dont care that much 20:48:13 send random invitations to the klepomanic society to go visit his house? 20:48:46 nah 20:48:55 :) 20:49:03 I were thinking about changing nick 20:49:14 anyway 20:49:21 it just was the final little push 20:49:33 anonimatic ? 21:02:41 nope 21:03:07 * paul_c edits index.html 21:03:42 howdy 21:04:23 yep, that ip is slomo 21:05:59 http://members.cox.net/kdntool/_sgg/m3m2s2_1.htm 21:06:05 Humm x2 mod kit. 21:14:49 night. 21:19:12 hmm 21:19:30 after work rest is almost over, cleaning up time 21:19:34 starts shortly 21:20:17 anything interesting happen today? 21:20:18 * paul_c needs to get on a retro-fit a lathe, but..... 21:20:48 udated emc package available from the repository. 21:20:58 hey, any of you seen the new cd printers? 21:21:30 I bet one of those could print the boxes to make an effective encoder 21:21:54 it may not have supreme resolution but It could be done 21:32:03 what is special about these printers? 21:32:39 they print directly to a disk, not a label maker 21:37:07 coo 21:37:29 so, if you are ripping stuff in mass production, they speed up the process :) 21:43:36 yeah 21:43:37 :] 22:07:45 oh cool I have 11 nixie tubes :) 22:12:18 oh my gosh, I own too much junk 22:14:21 but nixies aren't junk 22:14:37 * cradek also has a stash of nixies 22:14:45 I ahve a friend making a nixie stopwatch 22:15:00 well, more a stop-big-wooden-box 22:15:17 I've made several clocks, one that even sets automatically from WWVB and shows time and date 22:15:34 uh huh ... 22:15:40 it's pretty cool 22:15:42 made it about 3 years ago 22:15:47 you have *wwway* too much free time 22:15:55 it's been running ever since 22:16:10 robin_sz: huh? what's free time? 22:16:14 I have at least 50lbs of resistors and capicators 22:16:21 beats me 22:16:54 we got rid of a lot of leaded componente recently, 22:17:01 no use for much these dyas 22:17:47 did a 'deal' with a guy, we got some transformer wire, he got 'a couple of boxes of components' 22:18:04 except .. we filled a double-axle transit van to the roof :) 22:18:14 you wind transformers? 22:18:30 yeah 22:18:33 or did 22:18:43 still have the winding machines 22:18:50 cool 22:18:53 for toroids 22:19:03 I've always wondered how those are wound 22:19:16 well, you take a donut ... 22:19:33 and you wrap it in wire :) 22:19:39 bah 22:19:54 got machines for teeny little cores right up to 3KVA or more 22:20:00 you must pass a spool of wire throught the donut? 22:20:10 not quite 22:20:16 you really wanna know 22:20:18 ?? 22:20:35 is it a big secret? 22:20:39 nope 22:20:49 yeah I want to hear this 22:21:08 ok, so donut ... sits on machine gripped by 3 rubber rollers .. horizontal plane OK ... 22:21:45 there is a ring, in the vertical plane, it splits, like two C shapes when its open 22:21:54 when you close it it passes through the donut .. 22:22:09 like 2 rings joined OK? 22:22:15 ok so far 22:22:48 the ring is a spool in effect, it spins round on its axis driven by some rollers that it its in 22:22:59 right now .. its an empty spool 22:23:20 so .. first you fill it with the exact amount of wire you need for the first winding 22:23:45 ring spins, wire is fed on .. 22:23:56 picnet has quit 22:24:20 when the right amount is on ... you snip the wire, tape the inner end onto the core and the ring starts spinning again 22:24:47 this warps the wire from the inner of the ring/spool thing onto the core 22:25:05 the core rotates at just the right rate to lay it all down nicely 22:25:07 I see 22:25:20 sorta like a horizontal and a vertical circle 22:25:29 each rotating around each other right? 22:25:33 what is the split for? 22:25:46 IFF you get it right, when the wire runs out it will be JUST where you started, so your two end are in the same place 22:25:54 les: so you can get the core in in the first place 22:26:03 gezr yep 22:26:04 it doesnt fit through the center of the core 22:26:12 no 22:26:15 I was thinking that at first, its goes around the core 22:26:19 like a hand holding a ring 22:26:21 I don't understand how you wind it off the center of the vertical ring 22:26:40 no rollers and stuff, its a complex ring 22:26:57 robin_sz : its quickly feed on to the spool, then they rotated together as it feeds the wire on? 22:27:13 gezr: make an OK sign with each hand 22:27:24 robin_sz : yeah I understand it :) 22:27:24 gezr: link the two circles 22:27:57 its perfection :) 22:28:24 http://www.ingridwest.co.uk/wh/toroid/wh300pic.htm 22:28:27 like that 22:29:10 yeah :) 22:29:13 thats a bigen 22:29:20 same as mine 22:29:25 except mine are german 22:29:45 hence motors burn out, foot pedals catch fire etc 22:30:38 hahaha 22:30:59 the wires just sorta ride on each other for primary and secondary? 22:32:05 they could, but I think normally you put them on different sides of the torus 22:32:22 im going to run to the store, I have stuff to clean, if I dont get back at the cleaning, ill spend the rest of the night learning about transformers 22:32:41 more then meet the eye 22:33:11 autobots ......damn decepticons 22:36:11 cradek: no, that would be bad 22:36:39 cradek: you have to distribute the flux evenly in the toroid or Bad Things (tm) happen 22:36:47 ah 22:36:48 So .. first theresa mylar tape 22:36:52 then the primary 22:37:00 then a mylar tape 22:37:04 then the secondary 22:37:43 you can do it all on the same machine, but we used to have a sperate machine set up just for tape 22:41:50 paul_c: hammering ? abuse ? explain please 22:43:15 * paul_c only has 128K to the outside world... 22:44:27 It will take you 12 hours or more to download bdi-4.08 from here. 22:44:40 no kidding ? 22:44:58 nope 22:45:07 wget showing 6+ to go 22:47:19 paul_c: if i'm abusing or interfering let me know, i'll dico 22:47:25 disco 22:48:53 You're OK at the mo - Running of a local mirror for my apt stuff. 22:49:49 paul_c: ok, thanks, if it a problem, let know, i'll quit, qnd resume laater 22:52:59 I'll be going to bed in an hour or so... No need to disconnect. 22:54:23 my alaska looks cold 22:54:25 http://12.17.141.81/axis-cgi/jpg/image.cgi?resolution=704x576&dummy=1105475208816 22:57:58 robin_sz: good pix, yes, about the view i've got 22:58:09 nice :) 22:58:15 hello again all 22:58:24 hey les 22:58:28 roughly ... 22:58:36 how heavy is your gantry? 22:58:47 500 kg 22:58:56 and how many watt servos? 22:59:31 1600 22:59:41 2hp .. thats big 22:59:51 enough for 1 g 23:00:09 ok, and that gives you 1g and what max speed? 23:00:18 Imperator_ has quit 23:00:26 600 ipm 23:00:31 it's slow 23:00:32 k 23:00:58 yeah .. its heavy 23:01:01 I really need to go to a coarser pitch if I keep doing wood 23:01:31 or use a rack and pinion machine 23:01:40 I never run that fast because I am spindle hp lmited 23:01:49 still? 23:02:11 well 2.5 tpi would get me to 1200 23:02:28 but I need 12 hp at the spindle to cut at that speed 23:02:59 I suspect half the effort goes into spinning up the ballscrews 23:03:20 the sem motors are actually capable of 3.6 kW 23:03:28 coo 23:03:49 that would need a BIG drive 23:03:50 yes on x half the inertia is the twin screws and jackshaft...almost exactly 23:03:58 wow 23:04:54 theres another advantage of rack and pinion :) 23:05:05 but it hoots along... 23:05:11 let's see 23:05:36 1g is 384 ips 23:06:05 ips^2 23:06:27 19.2 inches from a standing still start in 0.1 second 23:06:36 right^2 23:06:56 just like falling 23:07:28 today I further attacked the emc jerk gouge 23:07:43 it is costing me several hundred a week 23:07:43 by gcoding around it? 23:07:57 here is what I did: 23:08:23 I thought of the impulse responce of a fir notch digital filter... 23:08:45 yes ... 23:08:53 so I started a short carefully timed tangent lead in 23:09:03 that starts the vibration 23:09:05 but 23:09:53